Rollz Radio Episode 9 | Hosted by Rollz McGuyver
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Episode Summary
Few people have been closer to the evolution of Decentralized Music (DeMu) than DuhLaurien, co‑host of Homegrown Hits and long‑time contributor to the DeMu movement. In this episode of Rollz Radio, we talk about self‑hosted music, Podcasting 2.0, Bitcoin, Lightning, and how artists are reclaiming ownership in ways that were impossible just a few years ago. This conversation traces the origins of decentralized music, the perfect storm of technologies that made it possible, and where things are heading next.
Featured Track
I asked DuhLarien about the story behind it.
“It was the first time I ever recorded myself singing a song all on my own… I started having too much fun laying out harmonies.”
The song came from her friend John Fletcher. He sent her the instrumental and lyrics, and she brought the vocal layers to life. The result is a haunting, emotional piece with rich harmonies.
Chapter Markers
- 00:00:00 — What Is Decentralized Music?
- 00:00:21 — Guest Introduction: DuhLaurien
- 00:00:31 — Origins of DeMu: AbleKraft & RSS
- 00:02:19 — Founding Homegrown Hits
- 00:03:05 — The Perfect Storm: RSS, Podcast Index, Nostr, Lightning
- 00:06:27 — Discovering Homegrown Hits
- 00:06:34 — The Future of Decentralized Music
- 00:11:32 — DuhLaurien as a Musician
- 00:11:42 — Featured Track: Lady of the Evening
- 00:14:48 — Behind the Track
- 00:17:56 — Running a Lightning Node
- 00:20:04 — Closing Thoughts
- 00:20:29 — Where to Find DuhLaurien & Homegrown Hits
- 00:21:01 — Outro
Links & References
- Homegrown Hits – https://homegrownhits.xyz/
- DeMu Album – Able and The Wolf – Stay Awhile – https://ableandthewolf.com
- https://Boostmebitch.com
- Candr – Chad and Reed’s Podcast – https://fountain.fm/show/IFLdE3GAAG8B4knvF48F
Key Topics
What Is Decentralized Music?
Decentralized Music is music that is self‑hosted by the artist, meaning they can be supported directly by the people who enjoy listening to their music. That’s the core. No middlemen. No opaque royalty systems. No platforms deciding who gets discovered. Just artists, listeners, and value.
The Origins: AbleKraft, RSS, and the First DeMu Album
Decentralized music didn’t appear out of nowhere. It grew out of a 2020 experiment called AbleKraft, a podcast created by Able Kirby and Sir Spencer. Their idea was simple but radical:
“Make a music album using RSS and the newfangled Podcasting 2.0 protocol… and get royalties forever straight to you.” – DuhLaurien
They documented the entire process from setting up a Lightning node to producing a full album (Stay A While) by Christmas Eve. It became the first fully documented DeMu album, complete with value splits for everyone involved. DuhLaurien created album art and still receives sats today whenever listeners boost those tracks. That early experience planted the seeds for everything that came next.
The Birth of Homegrown Hits
Mary Kate Ultra (Homegrown Hits Co-Host) reached out with a simple question to DuhLaurien asking if she would ever consider doing a music podcast. She agreed!
The timing was perfect. The decentralized music scene was growing, but there wasn’t yet a dedicated show highlighting new artists. With Mary Katie Ultra as co‑host, the accountability problem disappeared and Homegrown Hits was born.
Since then, the show has become a cornerstone of the DeMu ecosystem, featuring new tracks every week and giving artists a direct path to listener support.
Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker 1
What’s the simplest way to explain decentralized music to someone hearing about it for the first time?
00:00:05 Speaker 2
It is music that is self-hosted by the artist, meaning they can be supported directly by the people who enjoy listening to their music.
00:00:14 Speaker 1
Rollz Radio.
00:00:21 Speaker 1
Today I’m joined with co-host of the podcast Homegrown Hits and pioneer in the decentralized music space, DuhLaurien.
00:00:28 Speaker 1
Welcome to the show.
00:00:29 Speaker 2
Hey, thanks for having me.
00:00:31 Speaker 1
What motivated you to get involved in this and where did that all come from?
00:00:35 Speaker 2
So it all started off in 2020, I would say, when the Ablecraft podcast was happening and Able Kirby and my husband, Sir Spencer, were having, they had the idea to make a music album using RSS and the newfangled podcasting 2.0 protocol at that time.
00:00:57 Speaker 2
And they thought, this is great.
00:00:59 Speaker 2
It’s like you can put out your own album using these protocols and get royalties forever straight to you, no middlemen.
00:01:09 Speaker 2
So they were looking into how to set up a Bitcoin lightning node, and they were familiar with RSS from podcasting before.
00:01:18 Speaker 2
And they made this podcast, Ablecraft, to document their journey, playing with the protocols, but also recording a full album
00:01:27 Speaker 2
with a Christmas Eve deadline.
00:01:29 Speaker 2
And so they put that album out, Stay A While from Abel and the Wolf, and it was the first fully documented, planned out DMU album.
00:01:39 Speaker 2
So I was there during that whole journey, listening along and chiming in a little bit.
00:01:44 Speaker 2
I made some art for the album.
00:01:46 Speaker 2
And just like they planned, I got a split in the value splits for creating
00:01:52 Speaker 2
the art for Stay A While and the Stay A While reprise at the end of the album.
00:01:58 Speaker 2
And if someone boosts those songs today, I still get sats for it, which is really cool.
00:02:03 Speaker 2
So I was at the ground floor of Demu, which Decentralized Music was the name they went for it.
00:02:12 Speaker 2
No one was totally in love with it, but I liked Demu from the start.
00:02:16 Speaker 2
I thought it was fun and I’ve stuck with it.
00:02:19 Speaker 2
And about a year or two later, Mary Kate Ultra reached out to me and said, would you ever consider doing a music podcast?
00:02:27 Speaker 2
And I was like, yeah, I’ve been thinking about it, but the problem is without a co-host, it’s just me trying to keep myself accountable.
00:02:37 Speaker 2
And I’m not sure I could sit down by myself week after week and record a podcast.
00:02:42 Speaker 2
And she goes, well, I’d like to start one if you want to help me.
00:02:46 Speaker 2
And I was like, you got it, girl.
00:02:48 Speaker 2
And that’s how.
00:02:50 Speaker 1
Wow.
00:02:50 Speaker 1
So it hatched out of just that idea that your husband and Ablecraft, you said, Sir Spencer and Ablecraft just basically wanting to seeing that there was a there was something here that could be put together because there’s a few different elements, right?
00:03:05 Speaker 1
So obviously, and I’m new to this space, you know, I think you said we’re all just running with scissors in this space.
00:03:13 Speaker 1
But a lot of different worlds had to come together to get us here, right?
00:03:16 Speaker 1
So you talked about some of the RSS feed evolution.
00:03:19 Speaker 1
and podcasting 2.0, specifically podcast index, right?
00:03:24 Speaker 1
And then I’ve heard you say the term nude podcasting apps on your show, but also then you have Nostr and the enabling of cross-platform identities and of course Bitcoin and Lightning micropayments.
00:03:37 Speaker 1
Do you think any one of these are more important than the other and why?
00:03:42 Speaker 1
Or do you think that it’s just the perfect storm combination that makes this what it is?
00:03:48 Speaker 2
I think it’s a great perfect storm.
00:03:50 Speaker 2
I also wanted to correct you just the show was called Ablecraft and it was Spencer and Abel Kirby that put it together.
00:03:58 Speaker 1
Okay.
00:03:59 Speaker 2
So sorry, I wasn’t following along well there.
00:04:01 Speaker 2
I’ll let you say the wrong thing, but
00:04:03 Speaker 2
I think at the heart of it is the RSS feed because that’s what puts the music out there for everyone to see in multiple places.
00:04:13 Speaker 2
That’s what allows you to be heard out in the world.
00:04:15 Speaker 2
Everything else is a bonus, like being able to earn Bitcoin value for value.
00:04:21 Speaker 2
instantaneously on the lightning rails.
00:04:23 Speaker 2
That’s awesome.
00:04:25 Speaker 2
Noster is great for social connection and discovery and stuff.
00:04:30 Speaker 2
There is a long time spent on podcasting 2.0 talking about cross-app comments.
00:04:36 Speaker 2
And I feel like Noster is exactly what they didn’t know they were looking for that, where it’s like you can boost a show and people see your boost and they see the show, they can follow along with the threads and the conversations.
00:04:50 Speaker 2
Really cool stuff there.
00:04:52 Speaker 2
But for me, it’s, I think RSS is like the heartbeat of it.
00:04:56 Speaker 2
Just because that’s gonna be how you ping it out into the world.
00:04:59 Speaker 2
You have your RSS, you own that.
00:05:02 Speaker 2
You’re hosting your own songs.
00:05:04 Speaker 2
The RSS feed is where it all lives.
00:05:05 Speaker 2
It’s where people go to look for it.
00:05:08 Speaker 2
But then, you know, you add it to the podcast index and now you’re on all these new podcast apps, which we have a loving URL of nudepodcastapps.com, but you can also go to newpodcastapps.com and find all the podcasting 2.0 enabled apps where you can support artist value for value or podcasters or audio book readers.
00:05:29 Speaker 2
Yeah, we’ve got concerts up.
00:05:31 Speaker 2
It’s such a fun space.
00:05:33 Speaker 1
It is so cool and it’s so young that even though I think you said what, five years ago or something is kind of when it really started to pick up or when the origins were.
00:05:45 Speaker 1
And
00:05:46 Speaker 1
it’s still early.
00:05:47 Speaker 1
it just feels like there’s the space has a ton of room to grow.
00:05:51 Speaker 1
And one of the things that I like to do on this show and really it’s just the idea is before I even knew what it was, I knew I wanted to do it.
00:06:00 Speaker 1
And 2017, I was hosting a podcast, Rolls and Dice, right?
00:06:03 Speaker 1
That’s where I got my name, Rolls.
00:06:04 Speaker 1
So we were playing our own music on our podcast then because it felt right.
00:06:10 Speaker 1
It felt natural.
00:06:10 Speaker 1
So like as soon as I started hearing about this, you know, I was interviewing Nick Mauster from
00:06:15 Speaker 1
Mountain and he mentioned you guys, he mentioned Homegrown Hits.
00:06:18 Speaker 1
And so that’s when I started checking you guys out and I was just amazed and I was mind blown.
00:06:23 Speaker 1
It just kind of everything was like, yeah, this is clicking.
00:06:26 Speaker 1
This is all perfect.
00:06:27 Speaker 1
So I have one more question before I want to play one of your tracks because I know we’ll probably can get right back into this.
00:06:34 Speaker 1
Where do you think the future of decentralized music is heading?
00:06:38 Speaker 1
What do you think this will look like in three to five years?
00:06:42 Speaker 2
In three to five years, I think that a bunch more artists will be familiar with the concept.
00:06:48 Speaker 2
And it’s crazy thinking about five years ago or even like two and three years ago when we were starting Homegrown Hits, we had a friend shout out Booberry.
00:07:00 Speaker 2
He said, I don’t want you guys to go a week without like a new track to play.
00:07:04 Speaker 2
Because people were saying,
00:07:06 Speaker 2
there’s only six albums here.
00:07:08 Speaker 2
Like you’re just going to play the same songs over and over again.
00:07:10 Speaker 2
We thought, yeah, if we have to, because it’s such a cool concept.
00:07:14 Speaker 2
We play the song, people listening can support that artist directly, which is why we’ve done the 99% value split to the artist the whole time.
00:07:23 Speaker 2
And then the 1% is just so that Mary Kate Ultron and I can thank them at the end of the show.
00:07:28 Speaker 2
And we’re just like, we’ll just keep playing.
00:07:29 Speaker 2
We’ll mix it up, make different vibes every week or whatever, different playlists for different moods.
00:07:35 Speaker 2
And Booberry, he kept going out there and getting artists to upload their stuff, even if it was him doing all the work and just saying like, here’s your wallet.
00:07:45 Speaker 2
If you want the stats, it’s here.
00:07:47 Speaker 2
Like, let me know.
00:07:48 Speaker 2
It’s like a reverse robbery, right?
00:07:50 Speaker 2
You’re like, hey, you don’t want anything to do with Bitcoin, but I set a wallet up for you and it’s catching all these stats right now.
00:07:57 Speaker 2
So just let me know
00:07:58 Speaker 2
It’s so conniving reverse robbery.
00:08:04 Speaker 2
Right.
00:08:06 Speaker 2
So luckily, we have never really had to repeat songs.
00:08:10 Speaker 2
There are favorites, favorites of the hitters and also holiday songs when the holidays come up that we like to play a lot.
00:08:17 Speaker 2
But every single week there’s new songs at the very least.
00:08:22 Speaker 2
It seems like new artists almost on a weekly basis now, which is crazy.
00:08:27 Speaker 2
So I think in three to five years.
00:08:29 Speaker 2
We’re going to see a lot more fun being had in this space.
00:08:33 Speaker 2
And I’m thinking live streamed concerts with more boost reactive elements.
00:08:39 Speaker 2
Like maybe you can change the camera if you’re watching online with a certain boost amount, you know, a certain amount of stats.
00:08:46 Speaker 2
Maybe you can make things on the stage, turn off and on.
00:08:51 Speaker 2
Blueberry’s been doing a lot of good work making that happen.
00:08:55 Speaker 2
We’ve got the disco ball here.
00:08:57 Speaker 2
I’ll try to show you.
00:08:59 Speaker 2
And so if a booth comes into the studio, the disco ball turns on, the lights hit it, and it’s spinning around.
00:09:06 Speaker 2
So more stuff like that.
00:09:08 Speaker 2
I think more live streamed concerts will be happening.
00:09:10 Speaker 2
And I think that we will have better built apps at that point in time.
00:09:17 Speaker 2
Right now, Chad F, who you just had on the show, he has built
00:09:23 Speaker 2
what’s become my ride or die podcast listening app, but also music listening app and also concert streaming app, boostmebitch.com.
00:09:34 Speaker 2
And that it’s just been great.
00:09:36 Speaker 2
It’s like other apps may not be working for some reason.
00:09:40 Speaker 2
I go, oh, I’m just going to black screen when I click into the concert.
00:09:43 Speaker 2
But for some reason, it’s always live at the bottom of bmb.com.
00:09:48 Speaker 2
And he’s got Noster
00:09:51 Speaker 2
integrated over there too.
00:09:52 Speaker 2
So you can log in using your NPub or well NKey, whatever, you know, you get in there.
00:10:00 Speaker 2
I use Amber as a bunker.
00:10:01 Speaker 2
You’re in there.
00:10:02 Speaker 2
You can boost along, watch along, all the Nostr lives pop up there.
00:10:06 Speaker 2
So it’s as well as the podcasting 2.0 lives.
00:10:10 Speaker 2
So I just think there will be more apps to choose from that are capable of handling all this fun, crazy stuff.
00:10:18 Speaker 2
I think there will be a lot more ways
00:10:21 Speaker 2
that artists can be funded.
00:10:24 Speaker 2
Because right now we’ve really focused on Lightning and Bitcoin, but I know that Podcasting 2.0 has recently shifted their focus to the funding tag and other options beyond PayPal.
00:10:37 Speaker 2
So we’ll see how that goes.
00:10:39 Speaker 2
And yeah, I think there’s going to be a lot more artists and a lot more events.
00:10:42 Speaker 1
Yeah, the sky is the limit because you talked about video on these things.
00:10:46 Speaker 1
And I think I heard you and Mary Kate Ultra on one episode talk about, well, what would a soundtrack or a film score look like for DMU, like independent film and somebody scoring the music for that.
00:10:59 Speaker 1
And there’s so many opportunities.
00:11:01 Speaker 1
And yeah, shout out to Chad F.
00:11:03 Speaker 1
He’s a big deal.
00:11:04 Speaker 1
I told him that he was laughing.
00:11:06 Speaker 1
He’s like, I just create things like that I like that I want to see.
00:11:10 Speaker 1
But him and I.
00:11:10 Speaker 1
He’s too humble.
00:11:11 Speaker 1
Yeah, he’s too
00:11:13 Speaker 1
got that new show there.
00:11:14 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:11:15 Speaker 2
Fat and Reed’s podcast or candor.cnr.
00:11:18 Speaker 1
I’ll put the link in the show notes.
00:11:21 Speaker 1
But that said, yeah, I think the sky is the limit.
00:11:24 Speaker 1
That’s exactly kind of what I, it’s just blowing, it continues to blow my mind.
00:11:30 Speaker 1
But you yourself are a musician.
00:11:32 Speaker 1
I think you mentioned you played piano, guitar,
00:11:36 Speaker 1
recorder and sing.
00:11:38 Speaker 2
Yes, that’s right.
00:11:39 Speaker 2
Yep.
00:11:39 Speaker 1
We’ve got a track queued up from you that we’re going to play.
00:11:42 Speaker 1
And this one is from John Fletcher with Lauren Rose and everything is lit.
00:11:48 Speaker 1
This is Lady of the Evening.
00:11:59 Speaker 3
She’s lost in the city again.
00:12:09 Speaker 3
Down and out, no friends She’s lost her way Now have sex for pain
00:12:52 Speaker 3
She’s out in the city again Need a right girl hopping
00:13:09 Speaker 3
She’s plucked away The beauty of her younger days
00:13:50 Speaker 3
She’s up in the city again He’ll **** away
00:14:12 Speaker 3
that you’re running from today?
00:14:23 Speaker 3
Lady of evening, can you make some change?
00:14:31 Speaker 3
Why are you acting like that strange.
00:14:48 Speaker 1
Tell us a little bit about that track.
00:14:50 Speaker 2
So my friend John there came to me with a song idea and he said, I think this would be better if it was sung by a lady.
00:14:58 Speaker 2
Like I need a lady to sing it.
00:15:00 Speaker 2
I know that you said you sing.
00:15:03 Speaker 2
And I was like, yes.
00:15:06 Speaker 2
So he laid down the guitar for it and the drums and sent me the instrumental with the words.
00:15:13 Speaker 2
He had like a rough draft of the
00:15:16 Speaker 2
tune that he wanted and just said have at it.
00:15:18 Speaker 2
So I started recording and it was the first time I ever recorded myself singing a song like just all on my own with no help.
00:15:29 Speaker 2
And I started just having too much fun and like laying out all these harmonies and playing with harmonies and I sent him everything.
00:15:37 Speaker 2
in a couple days and was just like, I don’t know if you want harmonies or not, but I have all of these.
00:15:41 Speaker 2
And he was just like, okay, cool.
00:15:43 Speaker 2
And that was pretty much it.
00:15:46 Speaker 2
Have you worked with John in the past?
00:15:48 Speaker 2
So Fletcher was the host of Hog Story and also an infamous, I would say, end of show mix producer for No Agenda.
00:15:59 Speaker 2
He also had like the Fletcher scream that everyone really enjoyed that was kind of like a
00:16:05 Speaker 2
a staple jingle in many parts of the No Agenda show.
00:16:10 Speaker 2
So we met through the No Agenda community and his show Hog Story was a bi-weekly podcast as well that would do a guest slot on Thursday nights.
00:16:21 Speaker 2
And they were always grabbing people from the No Agenda troll room or No Agenda.social at the time for interviews to get to know people that listen to the same podcast, you know?
00:16:34 Speaker 2
And
00:16:36 Speaker 2
I got called in for asked called in, but I got asked if I wanted to be on the show with Spence.
00:16:44 Speaker 2
And we were like, okay, sure.
00:16:46 Speaker 2
This was, I want to say 29th.
00:16:49 Speaker 2
We had all the gear for podcasts or music making.
00:16:54 Speaker 2
We just didn’t have it set up.
00:16:56 Speaker 2
And so Hog Story was the reason we got our whole studio set up.
00:17:00 Speaker 2
We sat down, we did the show with them.
00:17:02 Speaker 2
And then we were like, why don’t we bring Bowl After Bowl back, which was our podcast that had been on hiatus since we moved and before we became parents.
00:17:10 Speaker 2
And so,
00:17:12 Speaker 2
Fletcher and Carolyn Blaney, shout out.
00:17:15 Speaker 2
They’re really the reason why we got back involved podcasting and then the whole DMU thing being birthed from that.
00:17:23 Speaker 2
But yeah, Fletcher’s a very talented musician, a wonderful conversationalist and a good friend.
00:17:31 Speaker 2
So he got making some music, which is always good for people.
00:17:35 Speaker 1
Yeah, those bass lines sounded great.
00:17:37 Speaker 1
I heard a little like Jocko Pistorius influence in there, just a little bit of everything.
00:17:41 Speaker 1
I mean, but the
00:17:42 Speaker 1
the sound, the instrumentation was great, the singing was great.
00:17:45 Speaker 1
So no, thank you for sharing those links because I always find value in listening to music with people, their own music.
00:17:52 Speaker 1
But so, okay, well, let’s take it back.
00:17:56 Speaker 1
As far as one more question I did want to say, or I wanted to ask, and it was just regarding the hosting.
00:18:02 Speaker 1
And I know that on Bowl After Bowl, you guys talk about running a node.
00:18:06 Speaker 1
How does this make
00:18:08 Speaker 1
what you do on the show possible?
00:18:10 Speaker 2
Running a node.
00:18:11 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:18:13 Speaker 2
So when sats are coming in, if someone is streaming sats or boosting sats, or now auto boosting sats, they are going straight to my, or Spencer’s or whoever our guest is, they’re going straight to their lightning node.
00:18:28 Speaker 2
And on the node, there’s
00:18:30 Speaker 2
a program called Helipad, which allows you to see all of the boosts or zaps or streams that are coming in.
00:18:38 Speaker 2
And it has metadata of like the person’s name and of course the boost amount.
00:18:42 Speaker 2
And they can write a message, which we call a Boostagram.
00:18:45 Speaker 2
And so then you can read that during the show and thank them because we were all born in the value for value world thanks to no agenda.
00:18:54 Speaker 2
A lot of our
00:18:55 Speaker 2
friends here.
00:18:56 Speaker 2
And so we think that thanking people, having no paywalls, no ads, it’s an important part of the show.
00:19:03 Speaker 2
So we try to put the value stuff up front, value for value, and get all those people thanked.
00:19:08 Speaker 2
And I really like having your own node because
00:19:11 Speaker 2
you’re not dependent on another person.
00:19:14 Speaker 2
Everything is under your control.
00:19:16 Speaker 2
And sometimes, yeah, there’s going to be troubleshooting and tinkering that has to be done, but it’s always a learning experience.
00:19:22 Speaker 2
And I think pretty much everything I know about Bitcoin, I’ve learned through running my own node.
00:19:28 Speaker 2
It was just a way to get in the car and start driving and get over the fears and the FUD that exists.
00:19:37 Speaker 2
So and it’s also one of those experiences of once you set it up, you go, wow, that was easy.
00:19:42 Speaker 2
And it’s just like weird.
00:19:43 Speaker 2
It’s like, why didn’t I set that up before?
00:19:45 Speaker 2
It sounded so intense, but.
00:19:47 Speaker 2
It’s cool being your own bank and payment processor, basically.
00:19:50 Speaker 2
It’s just another way to cut out more existing middlemen, I would say.
00:19:55 Speaker 1
It’s right at the ethos of decentralization, right?
00:19:57 Speaker 2
Yes, exactly.
00:19:59 Speaker 1
Okay, so any closing thoughts or anything that I missed that you’d like to share?
00:20:04 Speaker 2
No, I just hope that there are more people out there that are interested in sharing their music value for value and hosting it themselves, building cool websites and people building cool apps to handle.
00:20:17 Speaker 2
all this stuff and I would love to see more music shows too sharing all of these artists that are out here waiting to be heard.
00:20:25 Speaker 1
So where do folks go to follow you and then where do they go to listen to homegrown hits?
00:20:29 Speaker 2
Or you can go to homegrownhits.xyz to find the music show, or you can search for it on your favorite nude podcast app.
00:20:38 Speaker 2
It’ll be there.
00:20:39 Speaker 2
And for me, well, I’m over on Noster.
00:20:42 Speaker 2
You can search Dal Lorean and find me there.
00:20:45 Speaker 2
On Tuesday nights, I’ll be bowling at bowlafterbowl.com.
00:20:50 Speaker 2
That’s a good central place to find me.
00:20:52 Speaker 2
And I am usually lurking, talking, or hanging out on the IRC.
00:20:58 Speaker 2
So find a chat room that I’m in.
00:21:01 Speaker 1
All right, well, thanks for listening, everyone.
00:21:03 Speaker 1
Big shout out to Delorean for breaking down decentralized music and the V for V movement.
00:21:08 Speaker 1
If this episode gave you something valuable, send a boost or share it with someone exploring podcasting 2.0.
00:21:14 Speaker 1
See ya.