Rollz Radio Episode 12 | Hosted by Rollz McGuyver
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Episode Summary
Sir TJ The Wrathful joins the show to break down what the term “music producer” really means in 2026 and why the role has shifted so dramatically from the traditional industry model. Drawing from years of co‑writing with industry‑level producers, TJ shares how the mainstream system pushes artists toward hit‑song chasing, ownership loss, and burnout, and how those experiences ultimately led him toward independence and the Value‑for‑Value (V4V) ecosystem.
We dive into the contrast between legacy music industry roles and today’s self‑producing independent artists, exploring how decentralized distribution, transparent splits, and direct listener support reshape the producer–artist relationship. TJ also walks through his creative process behind “The Banjo,” his parody‑inspired progressive‑rock banjo track, and how writing across different instruments changes the feel and direction of his music.
Whether you’re a producer, songwriter, or independent artist navigating the modern landscape, this conversation offers a look inside the Nashville music industry reality, artistic independence, and the rise of V4V music.
Episode Chapters
- 00:00 — Music industry roles versus independent artists
- 01:25 — Introducing TJ and defining a music producer
- 04:48 — Two worlds in music: mainstream or fully independent
- 09:22 — Playing The Banjo and unpacking TJ’s sound
- 12:00 — Banjo, rock, parody, and creative experimentation
- 20:17 — From Nashville deals to burnout with the system
- 25:15 — Discovering value for value through podcasting
- 30:23 — Debating Spotify, access, and artist choice
- 36:25 — Live shows, community, and the future of V4V music
- 41:01 – Boosts, artist feedback, and closing the loop
- 47:19 – Why listener support matters and where to find TJ
- 51:15 – Listener boosts, zaps, and closing acknowledgments
Links & References
- Featured Track: “The Banjo” — Sir TJ The Wrathful
- Podcast Episode mentioned: V4V Music Spotlight Episode 004 The Doerfels
Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker 1
What do you think the contrast is between the roles of those mainstream music industry folks with the independent artists of today?
00:00:12 Speaker 2
The contrast to me now is you’re in this one category of you make it on the legacy platforms, you’re a part of the whole flow of that system, versus all self-sufficient in doing their music and things.
00:00:25 Speaker 2
And in the middle of it, you can get all sorts of different talent and everything like that, but ultimately
00:00:30 Speaker 2
Either you’re in that world of you make some money on your streams from Spotify or you’re just playing locally and just word of mouth and, friends and family, here’s my music and, sending it to your group chats and everything in your own new world.
00:00:44 Speaker 1
Rolls Radio.
00:00:51 Speaker 1
On Rolls Radio, if you’re listening on a podcasting 2.0 enabled app like Cast-O-Matic, Podverse Fountain, or True Fans, when you send a boost during interviews, 50% of the proceeds go to my guest.
00:01:05 Speaker 1
50% come to me.
00:01:07 Speaker 1
When you boost.
00:01:08 Speaker 1
during a guest’s song, 99% of the proceeds go to my guest and 1% stays back here with Rolls Radio, so I can see that it happened and can say thank you in the V4V segment at the end of each episode.
00:01:21 Speaker 1
Let’s get into today’s interview.
00:01:25 Speaker 1
Today I’m talking with Sir TJ the Wrathful, musician, producer, and early V4V adopter.
00:01:31 Speaker 1
And of course, member of the band The Doorfuls and co-host of the podcast Into the Doorful Verse.
00:01:36 Speaker 1
TJ, welcome to the show.
00:01:38 Speaker 2
Thank you for having me.
00:01:40 Speaker 1
I know you have experience working in the music industry.
00:01:43 Speaker 1
The term producer is thrown around A lot.
00:01:46 Speaker 1
What does the term music producer mean to you?
00:01:48 Speaker 2
It means anyone that feels like they’re making music and producing it, meaning kind of being a part
00:01:55 Speaker 2
of the arranging, maybe a recording and maybe the writing or just it could be just one of those.
00:02:04 Speaker 2
But producing music, right?
00:02:06 Speaker 2
To me, that’s just you’re making music somehow, whether that’s in a DAW and on your just at home by yourself or with a band, kind of kind of a lot of ways you could go with that.
00:02:17 Speaker 2
But that’s kind of a summary.
00:02:21 Speaker 1
Do you think that it’s always meant the same thing?
00:02:24 Speaker 1
Do you think that term has always kind of carried that same weight?
00:02:27 Speaker 1
Or do you feel that there’s, that it’s shifted maybe, I don’t know, in the last couple decades as music has?
00:02:34 Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it’s shifted quite a bit.
00:02:37 Speaker 2
I think when you used to use the word producer or music producer, it was somebody above a project or a artist or a band and they were like producing it.
00:02:48 Speaker 2
Like they were kind of the director.
00:02:50 Speaker 2
And I think now it’s kind of shifted to mean like, are you just self-producing?
00:02:57 Speaker 2
like you could self-produce everything.
00:03:00 Speaker 2
I’m a music producer.
00:03:01 Speaker 2
I’m just making beats, right?
00:03:03 Speaker 2
Like, I mean that, you know, I think it used to be more of a specific role in kind of in the industry versus now it’s just kind of
00:03:13 Speaker 2
thrown around pretty like loosely, you can just claim to be a music producer and you are, I guess.
00:03:19 Speaker 1
Yeah, I wanted to ask you that question because I know that you have worked in, with professionals in the music industry and a lot of people who listen to this podcast or, a lot of the audience that in the V4V space are independent artists and aren’t necessarily maybe working at that level as far as, a lot of people are doing the home studio thing.
00:03:42 Speaker 1
So I was curious what that, I think the term gets thrown around as you mentioned.
00:03:49 Speaker 1
It’s just kind of like, I’m a music producer because I make beats or I make a thing and I make it.
00:03:55 Speaker 1
And it’s, you know what, if you strip the term back to its basic parts, that’s really what it is.
00:03:59 Speaker 1
But I don’t know.
00:04:00 Speaker 1
I guess I’m curious about this evolving landscape of music and the V for V thing.
00:04:06 Speaker 1
You know, you’re not necessarily looking at the same
00:04:10 Speaker 1
hierarchy, your A&R, if you look at the music industry from the, rock’n’roll 60s all the way through the 80s, 90s, all of that stuff, you’ve got different roles.
00:04:26 Speaker 1
What do you think the contrast is between the roles of those mainstream music industry folks with the independent artists of today?
00:04:39 Speaker 1
Obviously there’s a huge contrast there, but I don’t know, where does that send your mind as far as what’s the big difference there?
00:04:48 Speaker 2
The contrast to me now is you’re either kind of have made it and you’re in a group or a bubble where you’re in this one category of you make it on the legacy platforms, you’re a part of the whole flow of that system.
00:05:02 Speaker 2
versus the complete, the other side, there’s really not a middle ground.
00:05:05 Speaker 2
The other way is you’re just all self or, some friends that are also just kind of small time self-sufficient in doing their music and things.
00:05:15 Speaker 2
And so it’s kind of, to me, there’s just those two sides that in the middle of it, you can get all sorts of different talent and everything like that.
00:05:22 Speaker 2
But ultimately, either you’re, you know, may have the friends or the connections or the money and you’re in that world of
00:05:30 Speaker 2
you make some money on your Spotify stuff streams from Spotify you are you have tours you do these gigs like where you play legit places that or you’re just you know go you know playing locally and just word of mouth and you know friends and family here’s my music and you know sending it to your group chats and everything of just in your own world and
00:05:53 Speaker 2
And if you’re if you’re young enough and smart enough, I think you can kind of afford to make a little, kind of make the self-independent thing way or work.
00:06:04 Speaker 2
But it’s pretty tricky.
00:06:05 Speaker 2
You have to really love it and you have to be very driven.
00:06:09 Speaker 2
Otherwise, it’s more of where, like, where are the door falls and me personally we’re at now is we are very, it’s a passion thing where there’s no longer any drive to like
00:06:20 Speaker 2
We have to make money and we got to be in the business and everything like that.
00:06:24 Speaker 2
So I don’t know, I guess where I’m coming from with all that is, yeah, there’s two different camps in the music world.
00:06:30 Speaker 2
And there’s, you know, it’s a big pool, a huge pool to kind of make it, but still even some artists, smaller artists that I like.
00:06:39 Speaker 2
It’s kind of funny.
00:06:40 Speaker 2
There’s a guy named Forest Frank who’s like huge and he’s Christian music now.
00:06:45 Speaker 2
And I remember listening to this guy like 2017, 2018, my kids made fun of me like, who the heck is this?
00:06:51 Speaker 2
Is it nobody, whatever.
00:06:53 Speaker 2
And he just went by Forest, right?
00:06:55 Speaker 2
And he had not, I don’t know, I know he had another group, but I haven’t gone on his whole history.
00:07:00 Speaker 2
But I guess the point is like, he kind of stayed at trying to get in the bubble of the big stream.
00:07:05 Speaker 2
And eventually he, with I think the help of money, like he was putting lots of money into this thing.
00:07:10 Speaker 2
So if you want to put lots of money into this thing and you want to play the
00:07:14 Speaker 2
be all over the socials, every social, because it’s all a game now.
00:07:17 Speaker 2
You got to be on all the social networks.
00:07:19 Speaker 2
You got to be on everything and getting the follows and the likes.
00:07:23 Speaker 2
And if you can get those numbers big enough, you can kind of get into the mainstream, but you have to keep up with it.
00:07:28 Speaker 2
And it’s like a very hungry beast.
00:07:31 Speaker 2
So you got to be giving it everything, you know.
00:07:34 Speaker 1
I cringe whenever I see those videos on Instagram or like whatever the social media and it’s like,
00:07:40 Speaker 1
the guy’s like, you want to get on Spotify, your things like to this level, follow my plan or whatever it is.
00:07:47 Speaker 1
And it’s like, okay, you’re targeting the independent artist probably.
00:07:50 Speaker 1
The independent artist isn’t going to necessarily have the success of the 1,000,000 streams, you know, to get that $1.00 or whatever the whatever the formula is for Spotify and Apple Musics.
00:08:04 Speaker 1
But you remind me of the you mentioned if you’re young enough, but I thought of
00:08:10 Speaker 1
immediately of Robert Johnson at the crossroads selling his soul to the devil.
00:08:13 Speaker 1
And right, how did he get those chops?
00:08:16 Speaker 1
How did he get those guitar chops?
00:08:18 Speaker 1
Well, he sold his soul to the devil.
00:08:20 Speaker 1
And it’s almost like you’ve got to, you know, it’s that like you’ve got to cross that threshold or just be fully
00:08:29 Speaker 1
into that whatever to get to that point.
00:08:33 Speaker 1
So the contrast is fascinating to me and I want to actually get into more of the V4V stuff with you, but I do want to play your track first because I think this will dive into kind of a little bit of who you are too and get a little more of your origins now.
00:08:46 Speaker 1
You recently with a few couple of your brothers did an episode on Matt Finley’s show, V for V Music Spotlight.
00:08:53 Speaker 1
So people should go check that show, that episode out, it’s episode 4.
00:08:57 Speaker 1
There’s a really great intro to you guys, to your music.
00:09:00 Speaker 1
Matt does such a great job of bringing that out with people and it was such a fun listen.
00:09:06 Speaker 1
So go check that out.
00:09:08 Speaker 1
I’ll put that link in the show notes.
00:09:09 Speaker 1
But I’m going to play one of your tracks first here, TJ, and then we’ll just kind of talk a little bit about it and then get back more into this V4V stuff because I think it’s cool and fun to talk about.
00:09:21 Speaker 1
Yeah, sure.
00:09:22 Speaker 1
All right, so here’s The Banjo by TJ the Wrathful.
00:09:34 Speaker 3
Can’t kill the banjo Banjo will live on Hard Rock tried to kill the banjo But they fell as they were smacked to the ground New Wave tried to kill the banjo But they fell as they were stricken down to the ground Grunge tried to kill the banjo
00:10:05 Speaker 3
But they failed, said there was room to be ground No one can destroy the bedroom Bandrooms strike you down with a vicious glue
00:10:37 Speaker 3
We are the anguish of the banjo We try to breathe more while we don’t know In the way we tried to destroy the banjo But the banjo had its way The brunch tried to dethrone the banjo The banjo was in the way
00:11:05 Speaker 3
Tried to destroy the banjo.
00:11:07 Speaker 3
The banjo was first used to wrong.
00:11:14 Speaker 3
Tegno tried to defile the banjo.
00:11:17 Speaker 3
But Tegno was coming wrong.
00:11:23 Speaker 3
Banjo, it comes from down yonder.
00:11:27 Speaker 1
Okay, so one of the things you mentioned in your interview with Matt Finlay is
00:11:34 Speaker 1
you guys bringing your songs to different producers, right?
00:11:37 Speaker 1
Or whatever, changing things and then you’ve shied away from maybe your work with the banjo in that arena.
00:11:45 Speaker 1
I guess under that lens of kind of now you’re talking about doing your passion projects and that’s your main focus.
00:11:53 Speaker 1
Through that lens, tell us a little bit about that track and maybe bridge that gap between the passion projects.
00:12:00 Speaker 2
Sure.
00:12:01 Speaker 2
So
00:12:02 Speaker 2
Growing up playing banjo from the time I was 8, bluegrass is a huge part of playing banjo.
00:12:08 Speaker 2
So, I was quite adept in playing bluegrass since I was a kid.
00:12:14 Speaker 2
And when I was a teenager, I was always kind of funny.
00:12:17 Speaker 2
I was always, I always loved people that would go out there like Balifleck and, you know, kind of like the, there’s only a few handful.
00:12:23 Speaker 2
It’s not a banjo, it’s not a huge like instrument.
00:12:26 Speaker 2
I mean, it is in a sense, but not as big as a guitar or anything like that.
00:12:30 Speaker 2
But so anyways, I always wanted to make a just a project.
00:12:35 Speaker 2
I always envisioned banjo with kind of this rock vibe or this kind of branching out thing.
00:12:41 Speaker 2
And I’ve never really quite heard it where I’m like, yeah, this is exactly what I imagined.
00:12:46 Speaker 2
And so I was like, after going through all the changing in our band and the different kinds of music we’d play and all the different things we did,
00:12:54 Speaker 2
I was finally like, I’m going to just kind of mess around and try to find that sound that I’ve always envisioned that, but rocking like rock music with a banjo and see if I can come close to what I envision in my head.
00:13:08 Speaker 2
And that track or that whole feed that I only have three songs on it right now, but it’s coming together pretty well.
00:13:16 Speaker 2
While I will say I have a lot of little things like
00:13:20 Speaker 2
I want to redo all of it like with my brothers because all those tracks are kind of all almost self-made like every part is all just me making it in my studio myself versus like when I play with a group of guys who like learn the song together and whatever I’m like it’s like the magic really gets into it like that is almost like this whole feeds like demos but like what I have in that track is you know just really I had to experiment and find ways to play that riff
00:13:48 Speaker 2
And have you, do you know what that song comes from?
00:13:52 Speaker 2
Have you heard?
00:13:52 Speaker 2
No.
00:13:53 Speaker 2
Okay.
00:13:55 Speaker 2
So this is what I call a parody or rapidy, a spoof of a main, I don’t know, I guess you’d call it a mainstream act.
00:14:04 Speaker 2
You’ve probably heard the name Jack Black.
00:14:06 Speaker 1
Okay, yeah, He has the thing.
00:14:08 Speaker 1
It’s clicking.
00:14:09 Speaker 2
He has the thing, yeah, Tenacious D.
00:14:11 Speaker 2
And I just like, you know, no, the banjo, not the metal, it’s the banjo.
00:14:16 Speaker 2
And so
00:14:19 Speaker 2
Now it’s ringing a bell.
00:14:20 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:14:21 Speaker 2
So I got to kind of learn that and then change it because he talks the whole thing.
00:14:27 Speaker 2
And so I was like, I just didn’t work with my voice and I’m not, I don’t even consider myself a singer.
00:14:33 Speaker 2
It’s just kind of like, oh, let’s just have fun with it.
00:14:35 Speaker 2
And it is what it is.
00:14:37 Speaker 2
But yeah, so all the, but the other things on that feed are all like, there’s
00:14:42 Speaker 2
Metal in the Banjo is the name of the one that tracks, and that’s kind of like an original.
00:14:46 Speaker 2
That whole project is lost.
00:14:48 Speaker 2
The MP3 that everyone hears is all I have.
00:14:50 Speaker 2
I had my hard drive cried on.
00:14:51 Speaker 2
Don’t you love that?
00:14:53 Speaker 2
Yeah, and I had like, you know, so many layers and different ideas.
00:14:55 Speaker 2
I’m like, I don’t ever, I don’t even want to go back to it.
00:14:58 Speaker 2
sounds daunting trying to recreate it.
00:15:00 Speaker 2
But, you know, and then there’s another track on there called Down Yonder, which is funny because that song ends with, the real song goes, you know, metal, it comes from.
00:15:10 Speaker 2
AG double hockey sticks is what he says.
00:15:11 Speaker 2
And I’m like, it comes from down yonder, and then it goes into this really traditional song that’s probably 100 years old.
00:15:18 Speaker 2
It was like a fiddle tune.
00:15:19 Speaker 2
And I made it like dubstep banjo.
00:15:22 Speaker 2
So it’s all, so that idea of that song, it just fit with these other things, these two other songs I had already had in this.
00:15:29 Speaker 2
progressive rock banjo sound.
00:15:31 Speaker 2
And very nerd, very weird.
00:15:34 Speaker 2
I don’t know how many people will listen to that and listen to it often, but hopefully they get a kick out of it at least once or twice.
00:15:42 Speaker 1
I liked how it tells your story a little bit.
00:15:45 Speaker 1
Like, I mean, you know, the banjo player.
00:15:49 Speaker 1
behind the guy, that type of thing.
00:15:51 Speaker 1
So I thought it was appropriate kind of just to dive in a little bit more.
00:15:55 Speaker 1
So you’re.
00:15:57 Speaker 2
I got to say, let me just finish up with that.
00:16:00 Speaker 2
So in the band that evolved, I was still mainly a banjo and a dobro or lap steel player.
00:16:06 Speaker 2
And but as our music got more pop rock, like I hardly did any banjo.
00:16:09 Speaker 2
And I was like, so this whole thing is like if banjo heads been a lead part in the band, if that makes sense, is kind of.
00:16:17 Speaker 2
I was like, if it was centered around me, this is what we would have done.
00:16:21 Speaker 1
Now, do you feel that is one of your primary writing instruments is the banjo?
00:16:25 Speaker 1
Do you write, do you know how like if you jump from instrument to instrument, your songs may come out differently when you write?
00:16:32 Speaker 1
Do you find banjo to be your home base or is it another, is guitar or something else?
00:16:37 Speaker 2
It depends.
00:16:37 Speaker 2
If it’s instrumental, it’s banjo.
00:16:40 Speaker 2
If it’s with words or lyrics,
00:16:44 Speaker 2
It’s going to probably be more around the guitar.
00:16:47 Speaker 2
Just for the sake of being such an easy instrument to play and write songs with.
00:16:53 Speaker 1
Yeah, and you said that you’re kind of treating those or you think of those as demos that you eventually want to get to the band and play.
00:17:01 Speaker 1
Is that just one way that you’re
00:17:04 Speaker 1
getting some of your ideas out that like one day.
00:17:08 Speaker 1
I know that.
00:17:08 Speaker 2
And I don’t know if I’ll ever get to.
00:17:10 Speaker 2
So I’m like, I’m not just going to keep them in my hard drive to myself until I die or something.
00:17:15 Speaker 2
So I’m just going to put them out there and have fun with it.
00:17:18 Speaker 2
And if I do get to, you know, add and create those tracks in a real room with real, you know, everyone real, like sweet.
00:17:27 Speaker 2
If we don’t, then hey, at least I got the ideas down.
00:17:30 Speaker 2
And I think.
00:17:34 Speaker 1
You got music coming out of your ears, man.
00:17:36 Speaker 1
So it’s like you’ve got tracks that all of you guys write and throughout the years, I’m sure.
00:17:41 Speaker 1
And in the interview with Matt Finlay, you guys go even into depth.
00:17:44 Speaker 1
It’s like, we just got all this music.
00:17:46 Speaker 1
So was that one of your driving forces for becoming this de facto, I mean, producer, right?
00:17:52 Speaker 1
We use that term, but like you just kind of decided that.
00:17:56 Speaker 1
Nobody’s going to do this.
00:17:58 Speaker 1
We have to just do this, right?
00:18:00 Speaker 1
Or I have to do this or we have however that went.
00:18:02 Speaker 1
But like, yeah, just tons of back catalogs, right?
00:18:07 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:18:08 Speaker 2
So it was definitely a part of that.
00:18:10 Speaker 2
I always wished I had more time to create and work on my own little, you know, projects and things.
00:18:18 Speaker 2
And we were always so busy gigging.
00:18:20 Speaker 2
What was one thing?
00:18:21 Speaker 2
And then just work, you know, working with playing
00:18:24 Speaker 2
doing the all the band stuff that I couldn’t put the time that I’d like to just into being really nerdy at my craft and my craft is the banjo like I that is the main thing in the way the band went it was like yeah I’m gonna play electric guitar or play lap steel kind of sounds like you know I have put run it through all effects and everything like that and like and you know it sounds like an electric guitar if you play it a certain way
00:18:48 Speaker 2
Anyway, so I didn’t get to really play the instrument that I was the most proficient at and which is okay because I love all styles of music.
00:18:55 Speaker 2
It wasn’t like I was like up there like, I really want to play the banjo.
00:18:58 Speaker 2
I was like, no, I loved all of it, you know.
00:19:00 Speaker 2
And so, but it was definitely something like, yeah, but I’m not really that.
00:19:06 Speaker 2
I don’t have the time to put into all these other instruments that I had the time when I was since I’d been playing banjo since I was eight that I, have with the banjo.
00:19:14 Speaker 1
Yeah, all that.
00:19:14 Speaker 2
I was learning classical music.
00:19:16 Speaker 2
I was learning jazz.
00:19:16 Speaker 2
I was just learning everything on the banjo.
00:19:18 Speaker 2
And then, and so yeah, getting to focus on that stuff when I can in, you know, when I’m now not doing my family life and work and everything is just something I hope that
00:19:32 Speaker 2
we get to play together, like you were mentioning with the guys, band or other musicians.
00:19:37 Speaker 2
It doesn’t have to be my brothers, it can be anybody, just that’s in my life.
00:19:42 Speaker 1
Yeah, That age of, 8, 10, right?
00:19:45 Speaker 1
When I got my first bass guitar too, it’s like you’re a sponge, right?
00:19:49 Speaker 1
So that becomes your native language, right?
00:19:52 Speaker 1
You know, it’s your English or your whatever you speak is your guitar, your bass guitar, your banjo.
00:19:57 Speaker 1
So I want to shift the
00:20:00 Speaker 1
the gears here just a little bit towards, and we can talk about your arc from getting into the Nashville scene to getting into the V4V scene, because I am curious of how you made that shift into the independence, decentralized and V4V.
00:20:17 Speaker 1
So could you just kind of give us that overview of how you got there?
00:20:23 Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:24 Speaker 2
My brothers and I, we all kind of were in Nashville.
00:20:28 Speaker 2
We had like a management contract.
00:20:31 Speaker 2
We were doing writes with Nashville cat writers.
00:20:35 Speaker 2
I mean, they had co-written songs for Taylor Swift and all these huge people that just, the top 100 of the pop and everything.
00:20:44 Speaker 2
And so we were doing all this stuff and just every song we’d write, it kind of felt like we were just kind of like, yeah, it’s not a hit though.
00:20:52 Speaker 2
It’s not like we’re looking for a hit song.
00:20:54 Speaker 2
Like we want a hit song, hit song.
00:20:55 Speaker 2
And you go into the room too and you lose, we’d come with almost a full song oftentimes, and then we’d lose over, half the rights to this track that we wrote a ton of.
00:21:09 Speaker 2
Not all the time, sometimes we’d build, a track, but you just, you just kind of had, and we just like, that’s the game you got to play.
00:21:16 Speaker 2
Like we’re nobody, they’re somebody.
00:21:17 Speaker 2
So, and they, if they have like publishing stuff, so if they have a song that’s really good and whatever, you know, you have a song with them, like maybe you’ll
00:21:26 Speaker 2
take off kind of thing.
00:21:27 Speaker 2
And it just always felt kind of odd just like, look, you’re like in the business, like you’re obviously making it.
00:21:34 Speaker 2
And then you’re going to come here and strip all this percentage of us who are like, you know, living out of our, you know, our bus or our vans and, you know, putting money on credit cards when we’re like, okay, we really shouldn’t be doing that because we don’t have any, but we don’t have any money.
00:21:50 Speaker 2
And we worked our whole lives to play music kind of thing, you know, like,
00:21:55 Speaker 2
So it just, it started to feel kind of yucky.
00:21:57 Speaker 2
And then when, I don’t know, we had 40, 50 songs and they had only released like maybe two or three.
00:22:03 Speaker 2
And I had eventually, this is right after I kind of, I backed down because I need money.
00:22:07 Speaker 2
I have kids and stuff.
00:22:08 Speaker 2
I was like, yeah, I’m not gonna, you know, go into 10 thousands of dollars of debt just, you know, for this, you know, got kids to feed.
00:22:17 Speaker 2
But they kept going.
00:22:18 Speaker 2
And of course, I was like in the background overseeing kind of how they’re handling things.
00:22:22 Speaker 2
And they were released, I think,
00:22:24 Speaker 2
right before they kind of, we decided to take a break with it.
00:22:27 Speaker 2
They had two or three songs that, and we were pushing them hard.
00:22:30 Speaker 2
And one we thought was getting picked up by the algorithms and it was gonna take off.
00:22:34 Speaker 2
I think it had like, I don’t know, 60, 70,000 streams.
00:22:37 Speaker 2
And it was like, and it just, I remember looking at the post and it was just like always begging.
00:22:42 Speaker 2
It’s like, can we make 100K streams?
00:22:44 Speaker 2
Can help us get there, share, blah, blah.
00:22:46 Speaker 2
It was just in everything and you had to be on it because people are scrolling and scrolling.
00:22:50 Speaker 2
The next day they’re going to be scrolling and scrolling and you have to be on this begging.
00:22:54 Speaker 2
And everyone just got burned out, man.
00:22:57 Speaker 2
It was just like, we have all this music.
00:23:00 Speaker 2
We didn’t really release any of it except for the ones that were like, maybe these were the hitters.
00:23:04 Speaker 2
And it was one of those.
00:23:07 Speaker 2
It’s just like, let’s just, and all the other guys were the same too.
00:23:10 Speaker 2
They’re just, it was not fun.
00:23:12 Speaker 2
It was not
00:23:13 Speaker 2
that energy you have when you’re making music when it’s like a part of you and because you love it.
00:23:18 Speaker 2
Don’t get me wrong.
00:23:19 Speaker 2
I mean, if you play gigs, there’s times where you’re like, I’m kind of tired and like to be done now or what, you know, whatever reason or you had a bad day or whatever, but like ultimately it was just past that.
00:23:31 Speaker 2
It was just all like not cool.
00:23:33 Speaker 2
It was not, it did not, we weren’t, we were going home every day thinking like, especially like, and I could see it in them once I stopped playing how they were just like,
00:23:42 Speaker 2
what are we doing?
00:23:43 Speaker 2
We’re getting nowhere.
00:23:44 Speaker 2
We’re just going.
00:23:45 Speaker 2
And so that they decided to take a break.
00:23:49 Speaker 2
And that song ended up never, I only think they made like $3 on, from the streaming services or something, but yeah.
00:23:57 Speaker 2
So after that, like let’s take a break.
00:23:59 Speaker 2
And they all just went and found jobs and everything.
00:24:02 Speaker 2
And so I was just, so I had already been working, right?
00:24:05 Speaker 2
I had already stopped.
00:24:06 Speaker 2
I’m going through this library of some of the songs I wrote on, but a lot of them I didn’t because I had stepped down.
00:24:12 Speaker 2
a little bit earlier.
00:24:12 Speaker 2
And I’m going, I’m like, man, these are some of these songs are pretty cool.
00:24:16 Speaker 2
You know, maybe they’re not hit songs, but they’re not garbage.
00:24:19 Speaker 2
I mean, yeah, maybe the writing is a little mature, cheesy or whatever, but I’m like, a lot of the music’s cool.
00:24:25 Speaker 2
Like I think it should like, why weren’t we just releasing it in letting it letting people decide instead of us having other, you know, other people like management and but whatever decide.
00:24:36 Speaker 2
And so I was like, how could I release this in a way where it’s just like,
00:24:40 Speaker 2
Word of mouth, family, friends, like, hey, just go here and it just plays, it just works.
00:24:44 Speaker 2
Because I looked into putting it on Spotify and everything, just everything.
00:24:47 Speaker 2
And the next thing I’m looking at all this stuff and we got all these other, I was just like, I don’t want to just pay to put everything up here.
00:24:55 Speaker 2
And I don’t know, I was just like, I just want to send it kind of in a, I don’t know, just not in a like, hey, go to Spotify, add us to your playlist, blah, blah, blah.
00:25:07 Speaker 2
And so I was like, originally I was like, I could just put these on our website and just turn this into a podcast feed and an episode is a track and they can just play and play all it.
00:25:17 Speaker 2
And I literally was having this idea.
00:25:18 Speaker 2
And at the time I was also listening to a podcast called No Agenda, who has Adam Curry, that’s his podcast.
00:25:24 Speaker 2
And then I found out somehow with listening to that, he was doing this other thing and starting to put music or they’re messing with music and podcasting.
00:25:32 Speaker 2
I’m like, dude, I was just thinking about that.
00:25:34 Speaker 2
And that, and the whole
00:25:36 Speaker 2
He’s doing a podcast value for value, right?
00:25:38 Speaker 2
So then I was like, we can do music value for value, like that concept.
00:25:42 Speaker 2
I mean, it’s been around.
00:25:43 Speaker 2
I mean, we go play in bars and stuff and it’s like, we ask for tips.
00:25:46 Speaker 2
I mean, you’re asking value for value.
00:25:48 Speaker 2
Adam Curry gets super annoyed when people call it tips.
00:25:51 Speaker 2
He’s like, it’s not tipped.
00:25:52 Speaker 2
That’s something you do to your waiter or waitress.
00:25:54 Speaker 2
Like, yeah, well, they’re providing some like service.
00:25:56 Speaker 2
If they do good service, then you tip them good.
00:25:59 Speaker 2
If I play a song you really like and it connects you, like you might throw me a tip, like, calm down, you don’t freak out.
00:26:07 Speaker 2
But either way, the whole, so the whole value for value idea was like, instead of, from now on with songs, especially that like we just had, wrote ourselves or whatever.
00:26:19 Speaker 2
And we, a lot of the songs we released have some co-writes and we talked to a lot of people and they’re just like, yeah, whatever.
00:26:25 Speaker 2
I didn’t really care.
00:26:26 Speaker 2
Like, if you see any money from that, let us know.
00:26:30 Speaker 2
They basically, and I’m like, well, you’re not going to see a ton of money.
00:26:32 Speaker 2
But what you are going to see is
00:26:35 Speaker 2
people who it’s not for everyone.
00:26:37 Speaker 2
There’s people out there that want to go to their Jonas Brothers.
00:26:40 Speaker 2
They want to go to their, you know, One Direction.
00:26:43 Speaker 2
They want to go to that stuff that they were plugged into their whole lives while they were growing up.
00:26:47 Speaker 2
You and I might have that, right?
00:26:48 Speaker 2
Who did you grow up listening to that?
00:26:50 Speaker 2
It’s just like, you know, you turn on whatever you want to listen to.
00:26:53 Speaker 2
You know, maybe you have a library of it all downloaded.
00:26:56 Speaker 2
But at the same time, it’s on the mainstream.
00:26:59 Speaker 1
The bands that you want to see.
00:27:01 Speaker 2
I don’t know.
00:27:02 Speaker 2
I think of like, I mean, I didn’t grow up listening to these guys, but there’s some of my favorite like Steely Dan, like I love Steely Dan type music, like, you know, stuff like that.
00:27:10 Speaker 2
And, but this is just kind of like, so we all have that thing.
00:27:15 Speaker 2
And so the value for value music is really for something for people who are just, I don’t know, I feel like it’s not going to be for everyone, but it’s going to be for people who are thinking like, we’re just kind of tired of like,
00:27:27 Speaker 2
just everything being shoved down their throat.
00:27:29 Speaker 2
Like maybe just being more, maybe it’s for people.
00:27:33 Speaker 2
I’m just kind of brainstorming with you here, but I’ve thought about this a lot and I feel like maybe it’s gonna be more for people who are just like thinking.
00:27:41 Speaker 2
I’m gonna be more purposeful with what I ingest and why I’m ingesting it.
00:27:45 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:27:45 Speaker 2
Because the world wants to, I mean, we’re bombarded with distractions and things to ingest all day long, every day, whether it’s on our news feeds, on our phones, or on the TV, on the commercial.
00:27:57 Speaker 2
And it’s like, I don’t know how much time you take to step away from the screens and the scrolling, but every now and then when I do, I’m like, there’s little things I’ll miss that I’m like, oh, I’m sad I missed that when I, but at the same time, like it was,
00:28:10 Speaker 2
so much is so worth it.
00:28:11 Speaker 2
It’s so worth to just be like, yeah, guy that was online strategic raffle, he didn’t post for like 3 weeks and he didn’t interact with anything or whatever.
00:28:20 Speaker 2
Like no one’s looking to see if I put like no one cares like there might, you know, and if, and it’s value for value.
00:28:27 Speaker 2
So it’s small enough.
00:28:29 Speaker 2
If someone did want to tell me something, there’s channels, there’s a noster.
00:28:33 Speaker 2
I’ve been starting using that.
00:28:33 Speaker 2
You can, there’s a telegram, there’s all these things.
00:28:36 Speaker 2
that people can actually reach out to me and get ahold of me.
00:28:39 Speaker 2
I’m not some superstar that’s unreachable, you know?
00:28:43 Speaker 2
And that’s how all the value for value musicians are right now.
00:28:46 Speaker 2
And so the idea now with what we’re creating though is so beautiful with the potential, like it could be bigger.
00:28:55 Speaker 2
I’m not saying I don’t want it to be bigger.
00:28:57 Speaker 2
I don’t know if it will be bigger.
00:28:59 Speaker 2
It could be, you know, but it has to be because we need, what is Matt Finley has been saying too,
00:29:05 Speaker 2
It needs listeners.
00:29:07 Speaker 2
We need people to listen.
00:29:08 Speaker 2
Well, how are we gonna get people to listen?
00:29:10 Speaker 2
Well, I think it’s gonna be a lot of us artists kind of getting light bulbs on other artists’ heads.
00:29:16 Speaker 2
And it’s gonna be a big, not big, a little group and slowly growing with other artists who notice like, yeah, we don’t, like the online stuff is all like, they make you think that if you do this and this and this and this, maybe you can get some playlists and get this and generate this and generate this.
00:29:33 Speaker 2
But I don’t know, I’m kind of convinced that that’s like trying to go pro in football or something or in any pro sport.
00:29:40 Speaker 2
Like it’s like, yeah, you can, everyone’s trying to do that.
00:29:44 Speaker 2
So maybe like be different and create a genuine, authentic community with those couple of people that do check out your music on your website, do check out your podcast.
00:29:55 Speaker 2
And then you just slowly, trickly, you know, trickle and find your people.
00:30:01 Speaker 2
I wanted that.
00:30:03 Speaker 2
That’s what I wanted.
00:30:04 Speaker 1
Look, you said you were brainstorming and you’re not like that triggered just a whole bunch of different things that, you know, it’s a personal choice, maybe.
00:30:13 Speaker 1
that’s what it is.
00:30:15 Speaker 1
If you’re an artist choosing to go down this route of, you know, V for V or whatever.
00:30:22 Speaker 1
I mean, personally, what do you have to lose?
00:30:24 Speaker 2
Yeah, and there’s a debate and there’s a good
00:30:28 Speaker 2
I can see reasons of why you should put your music everywhere and on Spotify and everything.
00:30:33 Speaker 2
Like I’m not in a place where I care about keeping up and trying to do that and being involved in any of that.
00:30:40 Speaker 2
I do think it’s all pretty corrupt and ultimately.
00:30:45 Speaker 2
So it’s like, but I do get to like my brother Ed, he has a group, City Beach is like his solo kind of stuff.
00:30:52 Speaker 2
He puts his stuff pretty much everywhere.
00:30:54 Speaker 2
You know why?
00:30:54 Speaker 2
Because he has a lot of friends and family like through his church or whatever that
00:30:58 Speaker 2
know what, how they listen to their music, it’s all playlists on Spotify or Apple.
00:31:02 Speaker 2
So if he doesn’t put it there, his friends can’t, they’re not, they might, you know, listen to his thing on our website one time, but it’s not going to be a part of their normal music thing.
00:31:12 Speaker 2
And so like, I get like some people, like you can’t feed, stop feeding the beast.
00:31:18 Speaker 2
And I get that, like I get that.
00:31:20 Speaker 2
But at the same time,
00:31:22 Speaker 2
Think about the people it’s affecting.
00:31:24 Speaker 2
It’s like, I literally have friends who were the only listen to music on Spotify app or whatever, like that’s just how they do it.
00:31:30 Speaker 2
So if they like your music enough that they would add it to a playlist, that’s where it’s gonna be.
00:31:35 Speaker 2
So it’s very, yeah, where you’re saying personal decision and depends on the artist and where they’re at.
00:31:40 Speaker 2
It’s just gonna, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong here.
00:31:43 Speaker 2
I think there’s a lot wrong in the back, and in the industries, but that’s any industry.
00:31:48 Speaker 2
Once something gets to be very big in anything,
00:31:52 Speaker 2
There’s corruption.
00:31:53 Speaker 2
That’s just how the world works.
00:31:54 Speaker 1
It’s fascinating though, just to hear your, how you came to V4V was just the light bulb went off for you.
00:32:01 Speaker 1
Like I can just host my, self-host my music on RSS feed.
00:32:04 Speaker 1
The whole No Agenda Podcasting 2.0 was emerging.
00:32:07 Speaker 1
It’s funny, my group Rolls and Dice, we were podcasting in 2017 and we were talking about the making of our music and then we would release the album on RSS.
00:32:17 Speaker 1
And then like when I came back around later, you know, I discovered
00:32:22 Speaker 1
Noster, which led me to, from Bitcoin to Noster to the V4V space and just kind of started seeing like, wow, there’s specs, there’s podcast specs that allow me to do this.
00:32:34 Speaker 1
officially now.
00:32:36 Speaker 1
And then I kind of, that’s where my discovery is going.
00:32:38 Speaker 1
And it’s like, keep peeling back the onion or eating the parfait, right?
00:32:42 Speaker 1
I keep going through and through and discovering more.
00:32:45 Speaker 1
And it’s an endless thing.
00:32:46 Speaker 1
And I’m here because I enjoy speaking with people who have common interests.
00:32:50 Speaker 1
And you know what?
00:32:51 Speaker 1
I think you’re right.
00:32:52 Speaker 1
Like, I think it’s just gonna be, you know, I think it was, was it New Music Nudge Unit said,
00:33:01 Speaker 1
he said something about we’re all small little pawns.
00:33:03 Speaker 1
He posted something, all small little pawns, V for V.
00:33:06 Speaker 1
But all these small pawns are popping up all over the world.
00:33:10 Speaker 1
And it’s like just kind of happening.
00:33:12 Speaker 1
It’s happening slowly.
00:33:13 Speaker 1
And it’s certainly a community that I love being a part of and I’m getting a ton of energy and inspiration from.
00:33:20 Speaker 1
And that’s just my passion.
00:33:22 Speaker 1
But it’s not, yeah, it’s like you don’t, you can’t tell anybody
00:33:28 Speaker 1
what to do, but you can show lead a horse to water, right?
00:33:31 Speaker 1
Can’t make them drink.
00:33:33 Speaker 2
I prefer people listen on value for value.
00:33:36 Speaker 2
You know, like let’s say, for example, if the Dorfels were still touring and we were still like, we were all making our living doing this, we’d probably be everywhere.
00:33:45 Speaker 2
And you know, there’s a lot of ifs, you know, who cares?
00:33:47 Speaker 2
But like,
00:33:48 Speaker 2
At the same time, the idea of, I remember we first started and we could put music on our website when I was, and I was like, when websites were just starting to become a thing, and it was like, that was our platform online.
00:34:01 Speaker 2
Like when people who, if they wanted to use the internet, they could just listen to, pull up stuff on our website, videos and whatever.
00:34:07 Speaker 2
And it was, and it was kind of like, then everything started to become, I remember I had Spotify and like, I don’t know, when it was just,
00:34:13 Speaker 2
starting in 2007 or eight or somewhere in there.
00:34:16 Speaker 2
And I had it for a long time.
00:34:17 Speaker 2
I was like, I list all this stuff is kind of cool.
00:34:20 Speaker 2
And then it is like, I kind of knew like, how are people getting paid?
00:34:23 Speaker 2
They’re not getting paid through this.
00:34:25 Speaker 2
And CDs start to go out and eventually you don’t get in.
00:34:28 Speaker 2
I was like, now I so now we pay this company and they supposedly based, you know, and they figured out how it worked.
00:34:35 Speaker 2
And I was like, man, it’s so convenient, but it really hurt.
00:34:42 Speaker 2
Everyone except the people at the top.
00:34:44 Speaker 2
It really hurt as far as, because when CDs were a thing, we made our living in bread and we bought our food from our CD sales.
00:34:54 Speaker 2
We, because we would bring them to shows, you put them on the merch table.
00:34:58 Speaker 2
Usually it was like, yeah, one for 10, 2 for 20, usually everyone would buy 2.
00:35:03 Speaker 2
And I mean, we would walk away with, 1000, depending on how big the venue was, 1000 or two couple grand sometimes in CDs.
00:35:11 Speaker 2
And then, so if then you’re, getting paid a couple $1000, and not all you weren’t always sometimes those, $800, depends, depends on where you’re at, how big you are, but we were a new upcoming growing band, kids and all this stuff.
00:35:26 Speaker 2
So our big our gigs eventually, they started like for free basically, and then slowly got paid and paid.
00:35:32 Speaker 2
And then, the place would have us back three years in a row.
00:35:35 Speaker 2
They’d always give us a little more generally, we cared about doing a good job for
00:35:41 Speaker 2
wherever we played and we tried to get better and all that kind of thing.
00:35:44 Speaker 2
And usually venues and people who hired us saw that.
00:35:47 Speaker 2
And I think it was just, but now it’s like, I was just thinking like if the door for verse we like to do, we want to do like live streams and stuff here out of our little studio.
00:35:57 Speaker 2
But I’m like, if I’d like, and I like to have a little live in person, like a couple of friends and family come.
00:36:02 Speaker 2
And so it doesn’t just feel like we’re playing too.
00:36:05 Speaker 2
have you ever done an online show and you kind of like, you finish a song and you’re like, okay, this is like your background music.
00:36:10 Speaker 2
You have to, but you don’t want people who are taking time to sit there and watch virtually to feel like, you know, you’re not that passionate about it.
00:36:18 Speaker 2
So I know when we have a couple people in the room, but I’m like, man, if it got,
00:36:22 Speaker 2
But what though?
00:36:26 Speaker 1
Those small venues, those intimate like venues, right?
00:36:29 Speaker 1
Imagine seeing the Rolling Stones or the Doors in those intimate days, those intimate settings, you know, bands could take advantage of that, right?
00:36:36 Speaker 1
And have those intimate shows like closed room, you know, I don’t know, cap it at 50 people or something.
00:36:43 Speaker 1
Even the large artists could and take advantage of the video streaming and live stream, you know, like that.
00:36:49 Speaker 1
There’s stuff here, maybe there’s stuff here for the mainstream too, not like that, because I’m not like anti-mainstream or anything like, but I mean like we talk with this community about how do we make this whole thing better?
00:37:05 Speaker 1
How do we keep the, rising tide all **** what’s the saying or whatever, right?
00:37:10 Speaker 1
So it’s like we, how can we bring us all up?
00:37:12 Speaker 1
And I hear DeLorean and Mary Kate Ultra on Homegrown Hits talking about like,
00:37:19 Speaker 1
cool, and those other podcasts where it’s like, there’s interaction built in, like you can boost in, right, and maybe light up their disco ball or,
00:37:31 Speaker 1
change a camera angle or something, she and she was telling like, these are some potential ideas.
00:37:36 Speaker 1
And I was like, and then what about film scoring for V for V?
00:37:39 Speaker 1
Where can this go in that arena?
00:37:41 Speaker 1
you watch, you’re watching Amazon Prime and they’ve got those ads popping up, right?
00:37:46 Speaker 1
Is there a V for V version of that?
00:37:48 Speaker 1
You know what I mean?
00:37:49 Speaker 1
It’s just like, I don’t know.
00:37:51 Speaker 1
It’s just the sky is the limit.
00:37:54 Speaker 2
Yeah, it sure makes me wonder that in like, I don’t know.
00:37:57 Speaker 2
I can’t really see it happening with my lifetime, but like 100 years, if the old way is so corrupt and eats itself that this become, because this is so authentic and very transparent, like with the way we do it and is that everything is in the feed.
00:38:17 Speaker 2
The splits are in the feed.
00:38:19 Speaker 2
The feed is public.
00:38:20 Speaker 2
All the apps and players read the feed.
00:38:22 Speaker 2
So if you really want to know how much
00:38:26 Speaker 2
you did a collab with someone and you’re and you agreed to something and you want to double check like you can it’s in the so there’s like it’s very it’s so the potential is so amazing it just makes me wonder if eventually people kind of awaken to that and it’ll be more like accepted in like oh if I don’t
00:38:45 Speaker 2
If I don’t like send, even just a few cents for the song, I liked, they won’t see anything.
00:38:51 Speaker 2
Like right now, that’s not even a thought when people pull up their favorite music, I don’t think.
00:38:55 Speaker 2
I mean, but that’s not how that system works right now, though.
00:38:59 Speaker 1
So yeah, when you build in micro payments, it was.
00:39:04 Speaker 1
And I don’t know if this is just me being like overzealous or what, or all of us being like this, but I want to, I just want to give value in this way, in this way I happen to be able to is with the boost, with the zaps, right?
00:39:17 Speaker 1
With this type of thing and in this field, because this is where my passions lie.
00:39:22 Speaker 1
And it’s easy for me to be like sats, boom, boom, boom, here you go.
00:39:25 Speaker 1
Like I like your style.
00:39:27 Speaker 1
I like your stuff.
00:39:28 Speaker 1
And even if like it’s not my favorite song, I still want to boost and zap because
00:39:34 Speaker 1
I’m just like, I dig what you’re about.
00:39:37 Speaker 1
Like, so there’s kind of that just being a part of something that’s contagious and exciting.
00:39:45 Speaker 1
And I don’t know if that’s just me again being overzealous or if there’s something really here.
00:39:52 Speaker 1
I think it’s the latter.
00:39:53 Speaker 2
And I think there’s something there.
00:39:56 Speaker 2
And it’s for it’s really building community.
00:39:58 Speaker 2
I don’t I have the theory that artists
00:40:02 Speaker 2
And I hope to see more artists trying to find ways to do this, but it doesn’t have to be anything complicated.
00:40:09 Speaker 2
It could just be on their socials or whatever, but to kind of acknowledge, especially if someone sends a boost with a message, and especially if it’s like, you know, a good amount of sats, it’s actually,
00:40:22 Speaker 2
I mean, if they wanna send in a little tiny thing with no message, like I don’t think you need to go and find them and hunt them down and say, thank you so much for the 11 sats or like, you know what I mean?
00:40:31 Speaker 2
I don’t think that’s necessary.
00:40:33 Speaker 2
But when you do find people that are like, you know, 3,000 sats, 5,000, 10,000 sats, you know, they’re starting to like, that actually goes, like, I don’t know if you’ve been boosting much.
00:40:43 Speaker 2
I boost on and off fairly regularly.
00:40:45 Speaker 2
And it’s like,
00:40:46 Speaker 2
I go through a lot of stats like faster than I realized.
00:40:49 Speaker 2
Cause I’m like, I’m like, whoa, whoa, I need, I can’t afford this.
00:40:53 Speaker 2
I wish I could, but.
00:40:55 Speaker 1
You know, it’s funny, Reed and Chad, Chad F and Reed’s podcast, right?
00:40:59 Speaker 1
Candor.
00:41:00 Speaker 1
Go check that show out.
00:41:01 Speaker 1
Anyone who’s listening hasn’t, but they go, and one of the things Reed said in one of the earlier episodes was,
00:41:08 Speaker 1
you’re getting these boosts.
00:41:10 Speaker 1
If you’re not reading them off on your stream, what are you doing?
00:41:13 Speaker 1
You’ve got to acknowledge it.
00:41:15 Speaker 1
And what does that mean for a musician who’s getting them and doesn’t have a podcast?
00:41:19 Speaker 1
What does that look like for that?
00:41:21 Speaker 1
You know, how is because the collision of podcasting and music was so natural because people are already listening.
00:41:27 Speaker 1
So there’s that that’s already your audience is already there.
00:41:32 Speaker 1
But people who listen to music, but not podcasts
00:41:36 Speaker 1
there’s a little, there’s just some, there’s some areas that still need to be explored.
00:41:40 Speaker 1
And you just brought that up.
00:41:41 Speaker 1
It’s like, if you’re a musician and you’re just seeing these boosts, how can you thank those people?
00:41:46 Speaker 1
And maybe it’s a direct message and maybe it’s a post, maybe it’s a, who knows, but.
00:41:51 Speaker 2
Have you, and you’ve listened to some of the Value for Value DJ shows, right?
00:41:55 Speaker 2
So you kind of wonder like about
00:41:59 Speaker 2
There’s so much music that’s posted through, and this is where you get really nerdy in the different ways it’s posted, but through Wave Lake, and you wonder how many people put stuff up there and then don’t check it, or maybe if they do, they just see if there’s anything in their wallet and they don’t even look at if there’s messages.
00:42:15 Speaker 2
And it makes me, I don’t know if you’ve used Wave Lake or if you know anything about Wave Lake.
00:42:22 Speaker 2
I haven’t used it either, so I don’t know how their backend works.
00:42:25 Speaker 2
I have a few friends that are on it and I chat with them about it a little bit, although
00:42:29 Speaker 2
they’re kind of like not very interested.
00:42:31 Speaker 2
They’re just like, yeah, I didn’t really, I mean, it was kind of cool.
00:42:34 Speaker 2
But when Adam Curry had his show going, our friend Ryan Fondo, who I grew up with in Buffalo, New York, he put his music on Wave Lake and Adam Curry was playing it.
00:42:46 Speaker 2
And that encouraged him to keep putting music on Wave Lake.
00:42:49 Speaker 2
And I would, you know, send him screenshots, like, look at people are boosting your tracks.
00:42:53 Speaker 2
Like, do you see this on Wave Lake?
00:42:54 Speaker 2
He’s like, oh, I didn’t see that message on Wave Lake.
00:42:56 Speaker 2
And I’m like,
00:42:57 Speaker 2
that’s a problem.
00:42:58 Speaker 2
And so there became this kind of like this fight and it wasn’t meant to be a fight.
00:43:04 Speaker 2
Like those of us that are pointing out weren’t like angry or just like saying, hey, it’s important that we figure out how to make y’all communicate with Wave Lake and the booths and make sure everyone sees things.
00:43:14 Speaker 2
And so that, because I don’t know about you, but if I’m sending a good amount of money to music and then I never hear anything back, I don’t even know if they got it or if they will look at it or they’re going to check their wallet or it’s going to sit there,
00:43:27 Speaker 2
I don’t really want to, I can’t afford to send like, 5, 10 bucks to someone if they’re never gonna even care or look at it or use it or, you know what I mean?
00:43:37 Speaker 2
Like for music, I like, I can’t afford, like I live like paycheck to paycheck.
00:43:41 Speaker 2
Like I will send five or $10 to an artist for music that I like, but I have to know, like I have to have some confidence that they will like, I don’t really so much care about the acknowledgement, but just that they know that it’s there and they’re
00:43:57 Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, half of it could potentially.
00:44:05 Speaker 1
You’d wonder if it’s a technological barrier or if it’s just maybe it’s the artist themselves not knowing, I don’t know, naivety, or whatever it is.
00:44:19 Speaker 1
But I wonder if there’s a way to close that loop quick, and I don’t know the answer, but for podcasting, I don’t know either.
00:44:26 Speaker 1
You mentioned the zaps on the next episode, the boosts on the next episode.
00:44:30 Speaker 1
How do you do it if you’re a musician and you’re receiving these?
00:44:34 Speaker 1
I started actually last episode I recorded was looking at my music boosts and bringing those up as well.
00:44:41 Speaker 2
Oh, awesome.
00:44:41 Speaker 1
You know, I think you boosted one of mine.
00:44:44 Speaker 1
I think you boosted one of the rolls and dice tracks.
00:44:46 Speaker 1
And so I recorded that episode and I said it, whether it was through Homegrown Hits or not like where I, where it was played or you went to V4V, I don’t know, but like, I don’t know.
00:44:59 Speaker 1
Is that what you, did you, was it a streaming?
00:45:01 Speaker 2
I was looking you up because I knew I was on your podcast.
00:45:05 Speaker 2
I was like, let me see what music he has,
00:45:07 Speaker 2
And I was like, okay, this is, and I was trying to figure out what you play.
00:45:11 Speaker 2
I was like, maybe you play the bass or everything, or, but maybe, I don’t know.
00:45:15 Speaker 2
Am I right?
00:45:16 Speaker 1
A little bit of everything.
00:45:17 Speaker 1
Yeah, bass is my primary instrument, but yeah, I do, you know, a little bit of all.
00:45:21 Speaker 2
You’re going to have to do a, I don’t know if you have one somewhere else, but you’re going to have to do an intro episode for like you because you have all these great episodes of interviewing other people, but then I’m still like left trying to fill in the blanks.
00:45:32 Speaker 2
It’s your purpose.
00:45:34 Speaker 2
You want to be all mysterious and you’re doing a good job.
00:45:37 Speaker 1
No, it doesn’t.
00:45:38 Speaker 1
I’m just kind of, it’s funny that like the silhouette of the bass player, it’s obviously that’s me from like a band I was in, right?
00:45:46 Speaker 1
But we always, when I did my group rolls and dice, we were working in a warehouse and my buddies like, this is it, this is what we’re going to be called.
00:45:54 Speaker 1
And we did like started a rap project and the hip hop stuff.
00:45:58 Speaker 1
And we always liked the NBA logo with Jerry West and the dunk, you know, like in the air.
00:46:03 Speaker 1
And so we kind of modeled the silhouettes after that.
00:46:07 Speaker 1
And it just stuck with me like that.
00:46:09 Speaker 1
I’m still I still work with dice.
00:46:11 Speaker 1
I still like hang with him and talk with him and everything and we’ll keep making music.
00:46:15 Speaker 1
But I just the rolls persona was a shoot offshoot of what that was.
00:46:20 Speaker 1
And so it just made sense for me to like put it up like a bat signal, you know, because I knew that this was a space I wanted to be in.
00:46:28 Speaker 1
So that’s all that is.
00:46:30 Speaker 2
But yeah, no, it’s just fun.
00:46:35 Speaker 2
I hope you keep putting music out there.
00:46:37 Speaker 2
And I don’t know, trying to tell, the guys who used to play with it, check this out, if you, and again, and just, and just kind of observe how they, if they’re like, oh, that’s, I don’t, that’s neat.
00:46:48 Speaker 2
Or if they kind of don’t care or if they, if they get it.
00:46:51 Speaker 2
I don’t know, because that’s what I’ve been doing with my friends and family.
00:46:54 Speaker 2
And the more they get used to it, the more they’re kind of like,
00:46:58 Speaker 2
Maybe this is a good idea.
00:47:00 Speaker 2
But sometimes they’re kind of like, I don’t know.
00:47:04 Speaker 1
Well, TJ, I have this, I had written out a whole bunch of other questions, but I.
00:47:08 Speaker 2
Think this was better?
00:47:11 Speaker 1
This was better because it was, and honestly, we touched on the stuff that I wanted to touch on and perhaps we do another day where we go even further into it.
00:47:19 Speaker 1
But with that said, is there anything else you would like to, before we tell people where to find you, all that stuff, anything else?
00:47:27 Speaker 1
that’s just on your mind about this that you would want to share.
00:47:32 Speaker 2
I just think it’s important that people think about everything on value for value music, especially the ones where you see artists that are actually active somewhere, whether it’s on their socials or, you know, they’re, you know, they’re talking about their value for value music.
00:47:50 Speaker 2
They that means if you give send them any kind of
00:47:54 Speaker 2
whether it’s through the whole boosting or zapping thing, or if they have another donation kind of thing set up.
00:48:00 Speaker 2
It is so encouraging, even it’s not so much about the amount, just the fact that, because a lot of us, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck, you can’t just send people $100 for a song or something.
00:48:11 Speaker 2
I mean, some people might though, some people might.
00:48:14 Speaker 2
That’s the cool thing.
00:48:15 Speaker 2
Everyone’s in a different spot.
00:48:17 Speaker 2
And so I guess I would just like to encourage people
00:48:22 Speaker 2
to just when you do hear a track you like, and if you feel comfortable that you think they’re gonna get that track or get a message or a boost from you, it is really encouraging because we’re not, because most people out here, there are those that are thinking, oh, maybe I can make, you know, they’re just Bitcoin lovers and they wanna make Bitcoin.
00:48:40 Speaker 2
But if you go through the shows like Homegrown Hits and Mutton Meat and Music, and you know, a lot of the DJs kind of know, like, if you’re not sure, you can find out pretty easily.
00:48:51 Speaker 2
But yeah, you could just send a message like, hey, if I boost you, will you get it?
00:48:56 Speaker 2
And if you, if they’re like, oh yeah, if they reply to you, then like, cool, then boost them.
00:49:01 Speaker 2
Or, you know, or even just, if you can’t, don’t boost them, just sending them a Facebook message or wherever they’re, they point you.
00:49:09 Speaker 2
Hey, I listened to your track on, you know, Fountain or on v4vmusic.com or wherever it was, and I really, I dig your stuff.
00:49:17 Speaker 2
That goes a long way for,
00:49:20 Speaker 2
everyone in this area because we’re just out here doing it out of passion and love of music.
00:49:27 Speaker 2
Most of us aren’t out here thinking we’re going to get rich or anything.
00:49:32 Speaker 2
And so I don’t know.
00:49:35 Speaker 2
That’s kind of the main thing.
00:49:36 Speaker 2
It’s all new.
00:49:37 Speaker 2
I don’t know how it’s going to go.
00:49:39 Speaker 2
I don’t know if it’s going to become a big thing or not a big thing.
00:49:43 Speaker 2
But I’m in it just because I love the community aspect that it’s building.
00:49:48 Speaker 2
I love people’s hearts and where they’re at for music on the artist side and also on the listener side.
00:49:54 Speaker 2
The people that do give and that have been a part of our podcast, the Dorfel Verse, producing our music for the past over three years, almost four years.
00:50:01 Speaker 2
It’s been amazing.
00:50:03 Speaker 2
And now we have these lifelong relationships that we wouldn’t have had if we didn’t just say, hey, here it is for free, value for value, and people with open minds that were thinking like that were willing to go off the regular path of what they grew up listening to.
00:50:17 Speaker 2
And now we have these really cool friendships.
00:50:19 Speaker 2
And that is a long ending spiel.
00:50:22 Speaker 2
So dorfelverse.com, D-O-E-R-F-E-L.
00:50:25 Speaker 2
It’s really spelled really rare.
00:50:28 Speaker 2
dorfelverse.com is where you can find everything in our umbrella of crazy stuff going on.
00:50:35 Speaker 2
So thank you again for having me and sorry for taking it down to such a place.
00:50:38 Speaker 1
Never apologize for that.
00:50:40 Speaker 1
was a great, that was a great rant.
00:50:42 Speaker 1
That was a great, everything was perfect.
00:50:44 Speaker 1
And TJ the Wrathful, you’re on Noster, you’re on there now.
00:50:50 Speaker 2
Yep, just look for Sir TJ the Wrathful or the Doorfuls.
00:50:54 Speaker 2
I pretty much manage all of it, so it’s all me controlling it, so you’ll find me.
00:50:59 Speaker 1
Cool, man.
00:50:59 Speaker 1
Well, thanks for taking the time today.
00:51:01 Speaker 1
I appreciate it.
00:51:02 Speaker 2
No problem.
00:51:03 Speaker 1
Peace.
00:51:15 Speaker 1
This is the V4V section of the show where I go through recent boosts, zaps, streaming sats, and Boostagrams and read them on the show.
00:51:23 Speaker 1
These are people who are listening to Rolls Radio and sending their appreciation.
00:51:27 Speaker 1
Additionally, I get the occasional boost from folks who are streaming my music, Rolls and Dice.
00:51:32 Speaker 1
Like this first one from Matt Finlay streaming on Homegrown Hits.
00:51:36 Speaker 1
He sends 59 sats a couple times.
00:51:39 Speaker 1
He says, great tune, Graffiti by Rolls and Dice.
00:51:43 Speaker 1
And it appears he is listening on Podcast Guru.
00:51:46 Speaker 1
Thank you, Matt Finlay, for the streams.
00:51:49 Speaker 1
Also, we got a boost coming on episode 11 with Turismo for 100 sats.
00:51:55 Speaker 1
That one comes from the Higher Low, and they say, cool stuff.
00:52:00 Speaker 1
Well, thank you for listening, Higher Low.
00:52:02 Speaker 1
It appears this one came from Noster.
00:52:06 Speaker 1
Right here I see 5,000 sats coming from Strange Love for episode 10 of Rolls Radio with Matt Finlay.
00:52:15 Speaker 1
The Boostagram says, great episode about V4V music.
00:52:19 Speaker 1
Matt Finlay has some great perspectives and Rolls MacGyver is a great interviewer.
00:52:24 Speaker 1
Well, thank you, Strange Love of Music.
00:52:27 Speaker 1
Switching over to Noster, I am seeing a zap of 33 sats coming from Amplified Tunes on the Touriz episode.
00:52:35 Speaker 1
Thank you Amplified Tunes as always.
00:52:38 Speaker 1
And finally it looks like I’ve got some sats coming from anonymous places of 100 sats, 24 sats, 57 sats, and 52 sats.
00:52:50 Speaker 1
So you don’t even have to attach your name to show appreciation in this way.
00:52:54 Speaker 1
That’s all I see for this time.
00:52:56 Speaker 1
Thanks for listening.