Rollz Radio Episode 14 | Hosted by Rollz McGuyver
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Episode Description
In this episode of Rollz Radio, I sit down with Mishkin Fitzgerald, touring musician, songwriter, podcaster, and Value for Value artist. Mishkin shares how she discovered the V4V ecosystem through Aaron of Essex, why platforms like Fountain and Primal feel different from traditional social media, and how direct artist-to-listener relationships are helping independent musicians build sustainable careers.
We also dive into her song “Losing Susan” from Gracie’s Cradle, discussing songwriting, vulnerability, mental health, and the powerful role music can play in helping people feel understood.
The conversation explores life on tour, sobriety, self-care, the realities of working in today’s music industry, and her new podcast, Rockstars Anonymous, where she and co-host Hana Piranha pull back the curtain on the highs and lows of being a professional musician.
Finally, we discuss why small communities, authentic connection, and creator-owned platforms give her hope for the future.
Chapters
- 00:00:00 Hope & Micro-Communities
- 00:00:30 V4V Intro
- 00:01:50 Introduction
- 00:02:01 Discovering Value for Value
- 00:05:11 Why Independent Musicians Need Micro-Communities
- 00:08:00 Featured Track: Losing Susan
- 00:10:06 Songwriting & Creative Process
- 00:14:19 Touring Life
- 00:17:12 Crimson Veil & Solo Music
- 00:21:17 Self-Care on Tour
- 00:24:02 Rockstars Anonymous
- 00:26:52 The Coven
- 00:29:32 What’s Giving Mishkin Hope
- 00:35:55 Where to Find Mishkin
- 00:36:33 V4V Segment
Links & References
- Mishkin Fitzgerald: https://mishkinfitzgerald.co.uk
- Coven
- Rockstars Anonymous Podcast
- “Losing Susan” from Gracie’s Cradle by Mishkin Fitzgerald – https://v4vmusic.com/s/1036
Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker 1
What’s giving you hope right now?
00:00:02 Speaker 2
What’s giving me hope is a lot of people just quietly stepping away and setting up their own systems and their own worlds and their own micro communities and just saying, you know what, I’m done with this.
00:00:15 Speaker 2
I’m done giving it energy.
00:00:17 Speaker 2
I am going to do something else.
00:00:18 Speaker 2
And they’re becoming this change.
00:00:20 Speaker 2
They’re just being different.
00:00:22 Speaker 1
Rolls Radio.
00:00:30 Speaker 1
The purpose of this show is to shed light on how musicians can be paid directly by their listeners, specifically using open source functionality provided by the Podcasting 2.0 spec, podcastindex.org.
00:00:42 Speaker 1
This is a fancy way to explain the enabling of peer-to-peer exchange of value for value when listening to music.
00:00:48 Speaker 1
Musicians upload their music and distribute it themselves.
00:00:51 Speaker 1
You, the listener, can listen on a Podcasting 2.0 enabled app or website, like Fountain.fm, StableCraft,
00:01:00 Speaker 1
Kraft with a K or V4VMusic.com and do what we call sending a boost, which is a micro payment facilitated through the Lightning Network directly to the artist.
00:01:11 Speaker 1
If you like what you hear, you send a boost on Rolls Radio if you’re listening on a podcasting 2.0 enabled app like Podverse, Cast-O-Matic, Fountain, or True Fans.
00:01:21 Speaker 1
When you send a boost during interviews, 50% of the proceeds go to my guest, 50% come to me.
00:01:27 Speaker 1
When you boost during a guest’s song, 99% of the proceeds go to my guest and 1% stays back here with Rolls Radio, so I can see that it happened and I can say thank you in the V4V segment at the end of each episode.
00:01:42 Speaker 1
Let’s get into today’s interview.
00:01:50 Speaker 1
Today I’m joined by Mishkin Fitzgerald, a multi-instrumentalist, V4V artist, touring musician and podcaster.
00:01:56 Speaker 1
Mishkin, welcome to the show.
00:01:58 Speaker 2
Thank you for having me, Rose.
00:02:00 Speaker 2
Lovely to be here.
00:02:01 Speaker 1
So we’re going to dive into your background and play some of your music, but first I wanted to ask you how you came across the V4V space and as a professional and touring musician, how does this augment your exposure to your audience?
00:02:13 Speaker 2
I got into the V4V space through Aaron of Essex.
00:02:17 Speaker 2
He came to one of my metal bands show in London and he approached me and said, we got chatting about how much we hated Spotify.
00:02:25 Speaker 2
And I was like, excellent, somebody else who understands, And then he just basically like opened my eyes to it all.
00:02:33 Speaker 2
I would say I’m definitely like still a bit of a noob.
00:02:36 Speaker 2
I’ve only been using it for a few months, but I’ve always been intrigued and I really love
00:02:41 Speaker 2
subculture and spaces where like there’s a real community, even if it’s a smaller community, though I really enjoy that kind of space.
00:02:47 Speaker 2
And at first when he was talking to me, I was like, okay, is this for real?
00:02:51 Speaker 2
This sounds a little bit weird, maybe a bit dodgy.
00:02:53 Speaker 2
You know, everyone’s like, stay away from crypto and Bitcoin and stuff like that.
00:02:57 Speaker 2
But anyway, yeah, we got chatting and that was it really.
00:02:59 Speaker 2
He introduced me to it and then introduced me to
00:03:03 Speaker 2
apps like Fountain and Oscar from Fountain and just a few people.
00:03:07 Speaker 2
And I just really enjoyed getting to learn and have a new experience that was away from, the sort of algorithm.
00:03:14 Speaker 2
It was great.
00:03:15 Speaker 1
Have you noticed a difference between your listeners or the difference of people reaching out to you?
00:03:21 Speaker 1
Have you gotten any new, certainly I discovered you this way through that V4V model, but have you noticed a difference in these listeners or even
00:03:32 Speaker 1
listeners from your streaming on your mainstream platforms versus streaming on V4V.
00:03:38 Speaker 2
So I’m kind of one of those people that don’t pay too much attention to like the amount of people listening to me.
00:03:45 Speaker 2
I should probably care about my stats, but I’m more interested in like sharing art with whoever is kind of willing to listen.
00:03:52 Speaker 2
And I find I’ve got lots of different little communities.
00:03:55 Speaker 2
Like I have a Patreon community that’s small, but very kind of steady and I know them really well.
00:04:01 Speaker 2
And what I did find about Primal was I felt like it was easier for people to see my music and then instantly communicate.
00:04:07 Speaker 2
I didn’t feel like there was a sort of gatekeeping kind of element to it where somebody might see you if you post something, you know, if they’re in the right algorithm or something and it didn’t feel like a fight.
00:04:16 Speaker 2
It felt like a straightaway, there’s already a community there and sharing it, you know, straightaway, there’s people, like real people genuinely interacting and it felt very much more like the people on
00:04:28 Speaker 2
apps like Primal and Fountain are there because they don’t want that other kind of just nonsense going on.
00:04:36 Speaker 2
They’re just kind of like looking for something and making like a human to human connection, which is increasingly difficult to do on the internet, actually.
00:04:44 Speaker 2
Human to human connection, I think it’s quite, it can be quite tricky, especially artist to music fan.
00:04:50 Speaker 2
It’s becoming increasingly harder.
00:04:51 Speaker 2
So yeah, I just felt like it was a more direct tap into it.
00:04:54 Speaker 2
I have to say I should probably like
00:04:56 Speaker 2
use it a bit more and I’m looking to do that over the next few months.
00:05:00 Speaker 2
I’m very excited to be playing it bit first as well.
00:05:04 Speaker 2
So I’m hoping I can meet some more in-person people because that’s really where my happy place is, that shows, meeting real people.
00:05:11 Speaker 1
Now do you think that the broader music industry, the mainstream industry is missing something when it comes to artist support?
00:05:17 Speaker 1
And do you believe that this is a potential gap?
00:05:19 Speaker 1
I’m trying not to lead the question here, but I guess do you think that
00:05:24 Speaker 1
there’s something that mainstream artists also need to be adapting as well.
00:05:28 Speaker 1
I suppose if they’ve got the same mindset as you, which is, in my opinion, the right one, right?
00:05:32 Speaker 1
I care about making art, connecting with people.
00:05:35 Speaker 1
But I guess, I don’t know, I’m just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
00:05:39 Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a tricky question to answer because I think it completely depends on the type of artist that you are.
00:05:47 Speaker 2
I think that the mainstream industry is really not doing well with the model
00:05:53 Speaker 2
that it has for 99% of the artists using that model.
00:05:57 Speaker 2
It very much feels like there’s a tiny amount at the top and then there’s just this huge like underbelly which of struggling musicians desperately trying to like keep up with what we’re expected to do.
00:06:09 Speaker 2
And it’s just, it can, you know, it can look pretty dark, like especially if you’re starting out like I’m quite lucky.
00:06:14 Speaker 2
I’ve been doing this a long time.
00:06:15 Speaker 2
I was there like, you know, in the days of MySpace and then, you know, when Facebook was good and stuff.
00:06:21 Speaker 2
So like, I feel like I had a chance to build up
00:06:23 Speaker 2
a following through that and selling CDs and stuff and getting my initial kind of fan base and then, building on that.
00:06:30 Speaker 2
But I think if you’re starting out today, it must just be so difficult to try and keep up with all of those things and be seen.
00:06:38 Speaker 2
everybody wants to be a musician, but it’s so difficult to build a fan base now.
00:06:42 Speaker 2
And I think really the only artists that are going to survive the next wave of
00:06:47 Speaker 2
whatever is going to happen are the ones that are building micro communities.
00:06:51 Speaker 2
I think this whole big global thing, it’s like, okay, it’s working for very few artists, but even the ones who are like doing well, so it would seem, are not.
00:07:01 Speaker 2
they’re not earning enough money to sustain touring.
00:07:04 Speaker 2
So it’s kind of broken.
00:07:06 Speaker 2
I think the mainstream industry is broken, and I think building micro-communities is the only thing that you’re going to be able to do to survive.
00:07:13 Speaker 2
And if you don’t adapt to that and start to bring in the V4V kind of thing, I think it’s going to be really difficult to build a career without that.
00:07:22 Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, you need the entrepreneur mindset, essentially, and the micro-community piece of it.
00:07:28 Speaker 1
I think it was Aaron of Essex who said,
00:07:30 Speaker 1
I’ve heard quoted him on this before, but there’s a lot of these small ponds popping up, but there’s these are small ponds, but there’s a lot of them popping up all around the world.
00:07:40 Speaker 1
These micro, yeah.
00:07:42 Speaker 1
So, well, what I want to do is, because I think this is going to be a good way to get to know you a little bit more, is play one of your tracks, listen to it together, and then we will talk a little bit about it, a little bit about your background, how you got into everything, and we’ll just go from there, okay?
00:07:57 Speaker 1
All right.
00:07:57 Speaker 1
So this one is off of your album, Gracie’s Cradle.
00:08:00 Speaker 1
And it’s called Losing Susan.
00:08:02 Speaker 3
Susan wakes up to the Oracle, makes connections only.
00:08:08 Speaker 3
She can see she wasn’t going out anyway.
00:08:16 Speaker 3
Receptions remain to be seen.
00:08:21 Speaker 3
Run down the stairs for a smoke till I hopelessly in love.
00:08:29 Speaker 3
Sickness start infesting into spine.
00:08:33 Speaker 3
Haven’t you had enough?
00:08:39 Speaker 3
I think I’ve had too much.
00:08:42 Speaker 3
I’ll keep on shaking this feeling of dread.
00:08:52 Speaker 3
Just another reminder from your flame.
00:09:03 Speaker 3
I’m losing Susan again.
00:09:12 Speaker 3
I’m losing Susan again.
00:10:06 Speaker 1
So that album has a lot of great music on it, first of all.
00:10:10 Speaker 1
There’s a lot of the tracks that are full instrumentals and everything, but that one was just stripped back with you singing, playing piano, and then a backing vocal.
00:10:19 Speaker 1
Could you tell us a little bit about that song?
00:10:22 Speaker 2
Yeah, so all of the songs on Grace’s Cradle and
00:10:26 Speaker 2
When I write solo worker stories, sometimes they’re based on real people, sometimes they’re not.
00:10:32 Speaker 2
That one is about a friend that, you know, I lost to mental illness and it’s kind of about the fear of going there yourself.
00:10:44 Speaker 2
I, you know, I have bipolar disorder and it’s something that I’ve had to deal with my whole life and, but I’ve also known other people with the same disorder and I’ve
00:10:55 Speaker 2
watched, a few people go to the, dark side.
00:11:00 Speaker 2
And I’ve lost some friends along the way.
00:11:04 Speaker 2
some of them are still here, but maybe I can’t be with them.
00:11:07 Speaker 2
And some of them, passed away.
00:11:09 Speaker 2
And, that was just a particular moment that I felt I had to just capture.
00:11:17 Speaker 2
And so, it’s kind of dedicated to that, dedicated to anyone who maybe can’t reach someone.
00:11:21 Speaker 2
So you’re sort of
00:11:23 Speaker 2
writing them a letter, but you’re never going to send it.
00:11:25 Speaker 2
And it’s just, the words just kind of tumbled out and, it’s more like capturing this moment with someone, but you kind of know that they’re leaving, and they’re stepping away from you and you’re watching it happen.
00:11:39 Speaker 1
Really?
00:11:40 Speaker 1
Okay.
00:11:40 Speaker 1
Yeah, it was, no, so you said the words kind of just fell out.
00:11:43 Speaker 1
Did that song kind of write itself?
00:11:45 Speaker 1
Was it?
00:11:46 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:11:47 Speaker 2
It was weird.
00:11:48 Speaker 2
It was like the first verse just was like, there I am, all of the words just all at once and the chords, the whole thing.
00:11:54 Speaker 2
It was really, and it’s quite a short song, so I feel like it’s more of a moment captured rather than like a completed song with lots of parts.
00:12:01 Speaker 2
It’s just kind of, for me, it was like a pause and a thought and that’s where it came from.
00:12:06 Speaker 2
But yeah, it was, it wrote itself.
00:12:08 Speaker 1
Do you agonize over songwriting or is it a complete joy or is it a little bit of both?
00:12:15 Speaker 2
Okay, a good question.
00:12:16 Speaker 2
I agonize over my lyrics A lot.
00:12:20 Speaker 2
The songwriting is the easy part.
00:12:23 Speaker 2
If I could just like be in a band and have someone come in and like write the lyrics, that would be like my ideal job.
00:12:30 Speaker 2
I love the lyrics and I know when they’re right, but it takes me quite a long time, you know, to get there sometimes with a song.
00:12:38 Speaker 2
Sometimes it does come all at once and it’s quite easy, but most of the time I do, the lyrics is the bit that I really slog over because I’m quite, they have to be right.
00:12:49 Speaker 2
The rhyming and the shape of them has to be right.
00:12:51 Speaker 2
For me, it’s just as important as writing a part.
00:12:53 Speaker 2
Like you can’t have lyrics that feel chunky or blocky.
00:12:56 Speaker 2
They’ve got to really roll off the tongue.
00:12:58 Speaker 2
So for me, the music comes pretty easy.
00:13:01 Speaker 2
The chords, everything, the arrangement, I know where the song is telling me to go, but the lyrics, oh my God, sometimes.
00:13:08 Speaker 2
It’s like, yes.
00:13:10 Speaker 1
Would you say you have a so performing and singing and that part of it is a part that you’re certainly would you look at as far as.
00:13:20 Speaker 1
the joy of performing is concerned compared to the joy of songwriting.
00:13:24 Speaker 1
Are they equal?
00:13:25 Speaker 1
Are they different?
00:13:26 Speaker 1
I suppose it’s different.
00:13:27 Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I love performing.
00:13:30 Speaker 2
I really do like all types of it.
00:13:32 Speaker 2
I love being in a room with people in a real moment when anything could happen.
00:13:35 Speaker 2
You could play a wrong note, you could mess up the words, or you could have the best gig ever.
00:13:40 Speaker 2
I love that kind of element of anything could happen.
00:13:44 Speaker 2
I think with the songwriting,
00:13:46 Speaker 2
it’s a bit more restrictive because you have to sort of sit there and think and you go back to it and you don’t have somebody there going like, come on, we’ve got to finish this.
00:13:54 Speaker 2
It’s just you a lot of the time.
00:13:55 Speaker 2
So writing alone is pretty tricky.
00:13:57 Speaker 2
That’s why I write with a lot of people, you know, and I enjoy that collaborative effort because it’s not all on you.
00:14:04 Speaker 2
So I’m always really happy when I’m working with another lyricist who can bounce ideas backwards and forwards.
00:14:08 Speaker 2
But even then, you know, it’s taken like sometimes days to finish like
00:14:12 Speaker 2
one line because it’s just got to be the right line.
00:14:15 Speaker 2
So yeah, I would say give me a gig any day.
00:14:19 Speaker 1
Now are you performing on the regular as far as what is your tour schedule like?
00:14:23 Speaker 1
How often are you up on stage?
00:14:26 Speaker 2
This year has been kind of quiet for tours.
00:14:27 Speaker 2
I had one tour in February at the beginning of the year and a few shows here and there with my metal band.
00:14:34 Speaker 2
The previous year was really crazy.
00:14:35 Speaker 2
We did like a seven-week tour and then a two-week tour and then a three-week tour and it was just like, oh my God.
00:14:40 Speaker 2
So it kind of goes in swings and roundabouts, but this year was really working hard on finishing a record.
00:14:45 Speaker 2
So that was kind of the priority and now we’re just waiting to hear where the next tour is going to happen.
00:14:50 Speaker 2
But
00:14:52 Speaker 2
pre-pandemic, I was touring like so much.
00:14:54 Speaker 2
It was insane in America as well.
00:14:57 Speaker 2
And, Europe, just all over the place.
00:15:02 Speaker 2
And then really like after the pandemic, it was hard because the whole thing just crashed and we lost a lot of contacts.
00:15:07 Speaker 2
So it was like building up again.
00:15:09 Speaker 2
So I would say that I tour less, but I think it’s going to pick up pretty, like I think next year is going to be really, really busy.
00:15:17 Speaker 2
The metal band that I’m in is
00:15:19 Speaker 2
signed to a label out in Germany and they’re very keen for us to like tour A lot.
00:15:22 Speaker 2
And once the second album comes out, I think it’s going to be like non-stop.
00:15:25 Speaker 2
So I’m kind of enjoying the fact that I’m not on the road so much this year.
00:15:30 Speaker 1
So I want to talk about a little bit about your bands too, but you mentioned the well-performing, perhaps the occasion where you may play a wrong note.
00:15:40 Speaker 1
What do you do if something goes wrong on stage?
00:15:44 Speaker 1
How do you deal with it?
00:15:46 Speaker 2
It depends on the band.
00:15:47 Speaker 2
I mean, if I’m just on my own, I’ll just kind of laugh, it was like, whatever, Keep trucking along.
00:15:53 Speaker 2
stuff like that.
00:15:54 Speaker 2
I don’t, like, I’m not, I’m never nervous on stage.
00:15:56 Speaker 2
I’m just like, if something goes wrong, like, you know, it’s funny or like, it’s just, it’s real, isn’t it?
00:16:02 Speaker 2
You know, stuff like that happens all the time.
00:16:06 Speaker 2
Generally, it doesn’t usually bother me.
00:16:08 Speaker 2
I only get really stressed if I’m like, I can’t remember a lyric and then I’m like panicking and then right up to the point where the verse comes in, you’re like, oh, that’s kind of not very fun because the song could actually like stop.
00:16:18 Speaker 2
But wrong notes, they happen all the time.
00:16:20 Speaker 2
It’s fine, especially when you’re songwriting a lot and you’re always jumping between songs.
00:16:25 Speaker 2
I have so many songs and people will be like, oh, you play this one or you play that one.
00:16:29 Speaker 2
And sometimes I’m like, sometimes I like to, you know, play what I call a danger set, which is like,
00:16:35 Speaker 2
I’m bored of these songs.
00:16:36 Speaker 2
I’m going to play all different ones tonight because I feel like it and that’s a dangerous set but it’s fun for me because it’s like the excitement and the danger of like potentially it going wrong but you know.
00:16:49 Speaker 2
generally, if something goes wrong, it doesn’t bother me.
00:16:51 Speaker 1
I always think of the book Victor Wooten, famous bass player, wrote the music lesson.
00:16:56 Speaker 1
It’s like, there are no wrong notes, right?
00:16:57 Speaker 1
It’s just, you just go and that’s all there is to it.
00:17:00 Speaker 2
Yeah, you can just be like, it’s jazz.
00:17:02 Speaker 2
It’s fine.
00:17:03 Speaker 1
It’s jazz.
00:17:03 Speaker 1
Yeah, just call it jazz and everything’s good.
00:17:06 Speaker 1
Like, you don’t understand.
00:17:08 Speaker 1
Half the time the audience doesn’t even notice anyways, or probably.
00:17:11 Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:12 Speaker 1
So talk a little bit about your band.
00:17:14 Speaker 1
I know you’ve, the one that you’ve recorded the album with
00:17:18 Speaker 1
recently and the one you’re about to tour on.
00:17:19 Speaker 1
I know you’re part of, your bio said Bird Eats Baby and Crimson Veil are two different projects that you’re working on, plus your solo work.
00:17:28 Speaker 1
I guess just give us the background of it all.
00:17:30 Speaker 2
Yeah, so Bird Eats Baby became Crimson Veil, got it.
00:17:34 Speaker 2
projects.
00:17:35 Speaker 2
It just reformed.
00:17:35 Speaker 2
We like basically
00:17:38 Speaker 2
started making metal, like progressive metal.
00:17:40 Speaker 2
It was kind of getting heavier and heavier.
00:17:42 Speaker 2
And so when we signed to the label, they were like, okay, we need to like make a clean break.
00:17:47 Speaker 2
If you’re going in this direction, let’s, you know, rebrand as a metal band, which was music to my ears because it’s like one of my favorite genres.
00:17:53 Speaker 2
So it’s metal, but it’s not all metal.
00:17:55 Speaker 2
It’s like progressive.
00:17:56 Speaker 2
So there’s loads of still like stuff in there, a lot of stuff going on, classical and, you know, progressive and metal.
00:18:03 Speaker 2
So Crimson Veil,
00:18:05 Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s a really heavy project.
00:18:07 Speaker 2
It’s big.
00:18:09 Speaker 2
It’s got like a lot of instruments in it, a lot of layers.
00:18:13 Speaker 2
The live shows are pretty theatrical and full of like dance and movement, and they’re really loud and heavy and fun.
00:18:20 Speaker 2
And then my solo work is more for me, like telling my own stories or things for my life.
00:18:26 Speaker 2
And that’s where I really like to engage with the audience.
00:18:29 Speaker 2
I like to play quite intimate shows and create a space where
00:18:35 Speaker 2
I don’t like to be totally removed from the audience.
00:18:38 Speaker 2
I like to connect with them.
00:18:39 Speaker 2
So for me, like sharing that, I’ll share the story behind it.
00:18:41 Speaker 2
And it’s very, it’s a much more informal kind of experience.
00:18:45 Speaker 2
So yeah, those are the two projects.
00:18:47 Speaker 2
And in the metal band, I sing and do death growls and some like really mad like opera sounding stuff and play piano occasionally.
00:18:55 Speaker 2
And then in my solo stuff, it’ll either be
00:18:58 Speaker 2
piano or accordion and vocals.
00:19:00 Speaker 2
And then my partner’s a double bass player, so he’ll play that.
00:19:03 Speaker 2
Sometimes, we might have a drummer or something else going on, but generally it’s a lot more stripped back.
00:19:08 Speaker 1
What is your message to your audience in general?
00:19:13 Speaker 2
I think the message is not here to perform to you.
00:19:21 Speaker 2
We’re here to experience something.
00:19:25 Speaker 2
So I want you to feel it with me and maybe there’s something that you’ll hear that you needed to hear and maybe there’s someone there that I need to speak to or something but it’s all about.
00:19:37 Speaker 2
about the connection because of the music.
00:19:42 Speaker 2
You know, I really like to get to know the people that come to the shows.
00:19:45 Speaker 2
I really love other musicians.
00:19:47 Speaker 2
For me, the whole thing is all about human to human connection.
00:19:51 Speaker 2
So I think my message is like, come in, let’s experience something different.
00:19:56 Speaker 2
Let’s get outside of the normal world and
00:20:01 Speaker 2
and see what happens in that space.
00:20:03 Speaker 2
I find it quite a spiritual experience, so I’m hoping that the listeners also have that same experience.
00:20:07 Speaker 1
Yeah, because you can put it all out on the table on the stage and then the conversations I’m sure you end up having with the listeners, with the audience and engagement is just that much more intimate and high level.
00:20:20 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:20:20 Speaker 2
definitely.
00:20:21 Speaker 2
And that’s the thing that keeps me going as an artist.
00:20:24 Speaker 2
is I play a song and I don’t really know why I’ve written it or, I just have to write it.
00:20:28 Speaker 2
I’m like, I had to write this song, it came and I had to get it out.
00:20:31 Speaker 2
And then, you sort of play it and somebody might come afterwards and say, that particular song really spoke to me.
00:20:37 Speaker 2
I’ve had this experience and then you have a shared experience because of that song.
00:20:42 Speaker 2
That’s really incredible.
00:20:43 Speaker 2
And then it makes me go, okay, what I’m doing.
00:20:47 Speaker 1
I was going to ask what motivates you.
00:20:49 Speaker 1
It sounds like just that authentic connection is a huge driver of your why, your motivation?
00:20:55 Speaker 2
Yeah, because a lot of it is basically carrying gear.
00:20:58 Speaker 2
through the rain, late at night.
00:21:00 Speaker 1
Of course.
00:21:00 Speaker 2
Like eating service station food and getting no money.
00:21:03 Speaker 2
And then you’re like, why do I do this?
00:21:06 Speaker 2
And then you can play a great show and somebody says something and you’re like, oh, that’s why I’m doing it.
00:21:10 Speaker 2
Thank you for saying that.
00:21:11 Speaker 2
Because it can be a little bit, it can be a hard graph sometimes.
00:21:17 Speaker 1
So you have a podcast, Rockstars Anonymous, and I actually listened to one of the recent episodes and I think you mentioned about self-care on tour.
00:21:24 Speaker 1
So I kind of bridging that gap with what you’re saying about the carrying out in the rain and how do you take care of yourself on tour and what is that like when living on the road?
00:21:34 Speaker 2
So I mean, for me, I don’t drink or do drugs.
00:21:38 Speaker 2
I’m totally sober these days.
00:21:39 Speaker 2
And that has been a huge like survival thing for me.
00:21:43 Speaker 2
I think if I’d carried on where I was going, like I would not be touring, I’d be, just not able to sustain it.
00:21:48 Speaker 2
So I think it’s all about you got to look after your physical health, because then that will help you with your mental health.
00:21:55 Speaker 2
Do you know what I mean?
00:21:57 Speaker 2
So it’s yeah, that kind of thing.
00:21:59 Speaker 2
So I basically will prioritize
00:22:03 Speaker 2
that to make sure that I can perform well and feel it.
00:22:07 Speaker 2
I think that’s a major thing for me.
00:22:09 Speaker 2
I know that like when I was younger, I could do drink and stuff and it was fine, but like now I won’t do that.
00:22:15 Speaker 2
It’s all about like making sure you have enough energy to give to the show and being able to feel that experience so you’re not kind of totally disconnected.
00:22:22 Speaker 2
So I would say like looking after your physical health, getting as much good food as you can, prioritizing that,
00:22:29 Speaker 2
as much sleep as you can get and also have a buddy that’s going to encourage you to do that because if everyone’s drinking in the van, like everyone’s drinking, if there’s someone who’s like, hey guys, should we go for a run or I’m going to get some nice food or how’s everybody doing and you have people who are kind of like helping you do the right thing.
00:22:49 Speaker 2
that’s how the band will run.
00:22:50 Speaker 2
It’ll be like, okay, if somebody’s struggling, the rest can carry you and vice versa.
00:22:55 Speaker 2
So I think it’s also really important to surround yourself with people who know what your needs are and will check in on that.
00:23:02 Speaker 2
Otherwise, you’re kind of on your own, like doing your own thing.
00:23:05 Speaker 2
Whereas if you have a good group of people, they’re going to be like, have you eaten?
00:23:07 Speaker 2
Have you slept?
00:23:08 Speaker 2
Do you need anything?
00:23:09 Speaker 2
And everyone’s kind of checking on each other.
00:23:12 Speaker 2
So yeah, I just think physical health and then checking in with somebody is a really good idea.
00:23:17 Speaker 2
And just
00:23:18 Speaker 2
just remembering that like it’s only a show, it’s only a band, it’s only a tour, like we’re not doing heart surgery, it’s okay.
00:23:28 Speaker 2
If something doesn’t go right, like it’s not a big deal, it’s music, you know, there’s always another show.
00:23:33 Speaker 2
So I think that’s quite important, you can get really obsessed with like it being perfect or, you know,
00:23:38 Speaker 2
The show was terrible.
00:23:39 Speaker 2
Oh no.
00:23:40 Speaker 2
And then it’s like, don’t worry.
00:23:41 Speaker 2
There’s always like another, another show.
00:23:43 Speaker 1
Yeah, there’s a, we’re all in this together kind of vibe.
00:23:46 Speaker 1
Sounds like you’ve got the right people around you, obviously, to spend all that time with.
00:23:50 Speaker 2
And hopefully I can be that person rather than be like, hey, do we get really messed up again after the show?
00:23:56 Speaker 2
Like, let’s do shots.
00:23:57 Speaker 2
And the next day you’re like, oh my God.
00:23:59 Speaker 2
So that’s not a good way to talk.
00:24:02 Speaker 1
So tell us a little bit about your podcast, Rockstars Anonymous.
00:24:07 Speaker 2
So it’s a podcast with my best friend Hannah Pirano, who were in like each other’s projects for, over a decade now.
00:24:16 Speaker 2
And we just really felt like we could maybe give back to some musicians, like just through like informal chats and being really, really open about the truth of what it’s like.
00:24:26 Speaker 2
So we thought Rockstars Anonymous was pretty funny because it’s kind of like herself, it’s like a help group, but also, it’s kind of for the rock stars who are like, we’re rock stars, but we’re not that well known.
00:24:36 Speaker 2
So it’s kind of like a bit of a play on words as well, you know, it’s like, does anyone even know who we are?
00:24:41 Speaker 2
Like, probably not.
00:24:43 Speaker 2
And just to give it a kind of bit of a playful kind of comedy vibe, our music’s pretty dark.
00:24:46 Speaker 2
Like if you listen to it, can be really dark, really depressing.
00:24:49 Speaker 2
So we wanted to show the side of us that’s like lighthearted and can have a laugh and just tell some of the crazy stories and stuff that we’ve
00:24:56 Speaker 2
been through and normalize those things for musicians because nobody really talks about the dark side of it on Instagram and the places where you present yourself.
00:25:04 Speaker 2
You’re just expected to be like, I have an amazing life and it’s so amazing and I’m always on stage and I’m like, you know, sometimes it’s not that way and I think it needs to talk about it more.
00:25:14 Speaker 2
people need to be able to say, I’m not having a good time.
00:25:18 Speaker 2
I’m struggling.
00:25:19 Speaker 2
And for people not to be like, get a job or like, you should be grateful.
00:25:23 Speaker 2
And there’s a lot of kind of stigma attached to like being a musician that you just should be really grateful that that’s what you’re doing.
00:25:28 Speaker 2
And we are, but there isn’t really a space for people to be like, I’m not okay.
00:25:32 Speaker 2
And we wanted to just basically tell the truth about some of the things that have happened to us and what we’ve been through.
00:25:37 Speaker 2
And, you know, again, just to normalize it so that other people can talk about it more.
00:25:42 Speaker 1
Yeah, the
00:25:44 Speaker 1
traditional social media, I guess those algorithms push you to post the highlights, show us what’s good, right?
00:25:50 Speaker 1
Show us all the good stuff.
00:25:51 Speaker 1
So sounds like you’re targeting a little bit more of those musicians who like maybe see all of that stuff, but, and they’re aspiring to maybe be a touring professional musician, but this is what it actually looks like step by step.
00:26:04 Speaker 1
And so now you can see, look, at my life.
00:26:06 Speaker 1
I’m showing you a little bit of everything.
00:26:09 Speaker 1
And so you kind of reach them that way.
00:26:11 Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:12 Speaker 2
And it’s just, it’s kind of nice to give back a little bit in that way and just, maybe, someone will hear it and be like, okay, that’s normal or not normal, depending on the situation.
00:26:21 Speaker 2
But at least we can say like, okay, we’ve been there, you know, we’ve had the bad, the bad times and the good times and, you know, and also have a laugh.
00:26:30 Speaker 2
Like, I just like, I think,
00:26:32 Speaker 2
when you’re a musician, a lot of what you do is play.
00:26:35 Speaker 2
you don’t work music, you play music.
00:26:38 Speaker 2
So it’s kind of, we have this real playful element and there’s so many funny things that happen on tour and so many funny things that happen with the band.
00:26:44 Speaker 2
And sometimes you don’t get to see that.
00:26:46 Speaker 2
So it’s a place for us to kind of like have a laugh as well and share some of the joy that we have as well as the tough times.
00:26:52 Speaker 1
So you mentioned your Patreon account.
00:26:54 Speaker 1
Is that the coven?
00:26:55 Speaker 1
Do I have that right?
00:26:57 Speaker 2
Well done.
00:26:57 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:26:57 Speaker 2
Very good.
00:26:58 Speaker 1
Okay.
00:26:58 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:26:58 Speaker 1
Tell us a little bit about that.
00:27:01 Speaker 2
So the Coven’s quite new.
00:27:02 Speaker 2
It was just my Patreon for a while, but I’m relaunching it as like a little tight-knit community.
00:27:10 Speaker 2
And I call it the Coven because I really like magic and music and I feel like they’re very interchangeable.
00:27:15 Speaker 2
Like I said, music’s quite spiritual and sometimes I find it this mysterious thing that just seems to happen on its own and I don’t understand it some days.
00:27:22 Speaker 2
And it’s basically just like a community.
00:27:25 Speaker 2
Some of the fans on there I’ve known for like a really long time and they’ve been with me since the beginning.
00:27:30 Speaker 2
Some of them are new people.
00:27:32 Speaker 2
But again, it’s just another place where I feel like it’s my online community.
00:27:38 Speaker 2
And we have fun things.
00:27:39 Speaker 2
We have like the song councils and now like I’ll share with them the whole process of the song as I’m doing it and I’ll share early drafts of it and show how I’m making it.
00:27:48 Speaker 2
I’ll get them to decide on things like how should I end this section?
00:27:51 Speaker 2
What’s
00:27:52 Speaker 2
key signature for this and they get to help me with the creative process.
00:27:55 Speaker 2
So it’s kind of like a really up close, group that get to see the whole thing.
00:28:01 Speaker 2
And then we have little hangouts like on a full moon or like hang out and, I might play some songs or we might have like a early listen to something before it’s finished or like a discussion or just, hang out and check in with everyone.
00:28:16 Speaker 2
So it’s kind of like a
00:28:17 Speaker 2
an extension of the community that I have, at the gig.
00:28:20 Speaker 2
It’s like the people who want a little bit more and they want to come with me on that journey and see what I get up to day-to-day.
00:28:26 Speaker 2
And it’s great because for me, it’s accountability.
00:28:30 Speaker 2
So I got to write a song every month for these people.
00:28:33 Speaker 1
That’s big.
00:28:35 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:28:36 Speaker 2
It keeps me creative and I have to, like last month I finished the song, you know, on the 30th at 11 P.m.
00:28:45 Speaker 2
It was.
00:28:48 Speaker 1
Because of those lyrics.
00:28:50 Speaker 2
Right?
00:28:50 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:28:50 Speaker 2
And I had a crazy month anyway.
00:28:52 Speaker 2
So sometimes that happens.
00:28:53 Speaker 2
And then sometimes I’ve just got a really easy song and I’m like, great.
00:28:55 Speaker 2
I do it in the first week of the month.
00:28:56 Speaker 2
And I’m like, here we go.
00:28:57 Speaker 2
It’s easy.
00:28:57 Speaker 2
But whatever it is and whatever I’m going through, I feel like I can share it with them.
00:29:01 Speaker 2
And they support me not just financially, but you know, they’re really like, know who I am.
00:29:06 Speaker 2
And I know who they are and that’s a really important thing for me to have this little family.
00:29:11 Speaker 2
But also, every month I’ve got to make something for these lovely people.
00:29:15 Speaker 2
So it keeps me working and again, another reason to carry on.
00:29:18 Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s that micro community you were talking about.
00:29:20 Speaker 1
You can create a space for exactly the conversations that you want to have and that your people want to have as well.
00:29:30 Speaker 1
Very cool, very cool.
00:29:32 Speaker 1
okay, so before we get to where people can reach you and all of that stuff, find all your stuff, which I’ll also put in the show notes, I just got just, I guess, one more question.
00:29:43 Speaker 1
I like it as a last question.
00:29:44 Speaker 1
What’s giving you hope right now?
00:29:50 Speaker 2
That’s another great question.
00:29:52 Speaker 2
Okay, so what’s giving me hope is
00:29:58 Speaker 2
a little bit about what we talked about at the very first thing.
00:30:01 Speaker 2
There does seem to be a lot of small micro communities popping up, not just, in music, but everywhere.
00:30:08 Speaker 2
There seems to be a lot of community interest right now.
00:30:12 Speaker 2
There seems to be a lot of people kind of stepping away from this like capitalist death cult thing that’s been going on for ages, you know, that’s kind of like killing itself, you know.
00:30:23 Speaker 2
And I think there’s been a real like,
00:30:26 Speaker 2
energy of fighting against it.
00:30:27 Speaker 2
And if you look at social media, it’s us against them and we’ve got to fight this, fight the patriarchy, go do it.
00:30:34 Speaker 2
And this whole energy is just really, really exhausting.
00:30:38 Speaker 2
Absolutely exhausting to the point that I’m just like, I don’t want to go on those platforms ever again.
00:30:43 Speaker 1
Yeah, I get it.
00:30:45 Speaker 2
Right.
00:30:45 Speaker 2
And I think everybody’s become quite tired of that.
00:30:48 Speaker 2
And I’ve noticed that instead of this whole energy of like, I’ve got to do that, there’s a lot of people just quietly
00:30:55 Speaker 2
stepping away and setting up their own systems and their own worlds and their own micro communities and just saying, what, I’m done with this.
00:31:03 Speaker 2
I’m done giving it energy.
00:31:05 Speaker 2
I am going to do something else.
00:31:07 Speaker 2
And they’re becoming this change.
00:31:08 Speaker 2
They’re just being different.
00:31:10 Speaker 2
They’re not like starting this thing and fighting against it.
00:31:13 Speaker 2
They’re just quietly setting up new systems.
00:31:15 Speaker 2
And I can see so much of that happening.
00:31:17 Speaker 2
It’s really great.
00:31:18 Speaker 2
One of my jobs is I teach songwriting workshops and I do it.
00:31:23 Speaker 2
sometimes in rehabilitation places or in prisons or places like that, where music is really desperately needed and it’s to help people kind of have a way out of their situation.
00:31:37 Speaker 2
Systems like that, they’re kind of quietly happening without people really knowing about it, but it just takes one person to give that to someone else and then they have hope.
00:31:48 Speaker 2
And I’m seeing so much of that now and I think
00:31:51 Speaker 2
think it looks bad.
00:31:53 Speaker 2
the world looks really bad right now.
00:31:54 Speaker 2
And there is a lot of awful stuff, but there is so much hope at the moment.
00:31:59 Speaker 2
You can see it if you look for it.
00:32:00 Speaker 2
But it’s like a quiet kind of, you know, rebellion that’s just exhausted and is going, I’m not doing that anymore.
00:32:08 Speaker 2
And eventually that just takes so much power away from it.
00:32:10 Speaker 2
I mean, imagine what would happen if everybody just ignored Trump, right?
00:32:14 Speaker 2
Like,
00:32:15 Speaker 2
just stop giving that person energy, stuff like that.
00:32:18 Speaker 2
So I just think that there is something there.
00:32:21 Speaker 2
And I think it just looks really bad.
00:32:22 Speaker 2
Like if you go on the news, you go social media, they’re only going to tell you sad stuff.
00:32:26 Speaker 1
It’s too much division.
00:32:28 Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:32:29 Speaker 2
Whereas if you have your own community, like this V for V thing, you know, I can’t wait to go to Bitfest and meet a bunch of people who are just not doing that.
00:32:37 Speaker 2
You know, they’re not like,
00:32:39 Speaker 2
taking part in that dead system.
00:32:41 Speaker 2
They’re like, we’re over here having fun.
00:32:43 Speaker 2
That’s where I want to go.
00:32:44 Speaker 2
And that’s where I think the hope is.
00:32:45 Speaker 2
And it’s really exciting when you start to see it happening, like in all of these little things.
00:32:49 Speaker 2
So I do think there’s a lot of hope.
00:32:51 Speaker 2
I think I am an optimistic goth.
00:32:53 Speaker 1
Well, look, hey, I feel you.
00:32:56 Speaker 1
The revolution is peaceful, can be peaceful.
00:32:59 Speaker 1
There doesn’t have to be violence.
00:33:00 Speaker 1
We don’t have to be at each other’s throats all the time.
00:33:03 Speaker 1
This division is nonsense and it’s created.
00:33:06 Speaker 1
And I think it stems from the way the system is set up.
00:33:14 Speaker 1
I speak to these musicians, I speak to punk rockers, I speak to the metal people, the rap people, everyone.
00:33:20 Speaker 1
And music has a way of bringing that type of thing out of us.
00:33:24 Speaker 1
Like you’re able to explore these deep feelings, whether it’s angst as a teen or whatever it is, be able to write that.
00:33:30 Speaker 1
And you talked about songwriting part of your process.
00:33:34 Speaker 1
And the songs sometimes write themselves.
00:33:36 Speaker 1
You agonize over the words.
00:33:38 Speaker 1
I do the same.
00:33:39 Speaker 1
And, we can explore.
00:33:43 Speaker 1
I think a lot of my, in my earlier years when I was songwriting, a lot of that angst came from because I didn’t understand what was going on.
00:33:51 Speaker 1
And I’ve had the opportunity to see some things and learn some things about, you know, what I didn’t know.
00:33:59 Speaker 1
And it wasn’t supposed, it wasn’t ever supposed to make sense.
00:34:03 Speaker 1
the way that we’re set up to live our lives.
00:34:05 Speaker 1
So yes, these micro communities that are popping up all over the place give me hope as well.
00:34:10 Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s kind of like band starting all the time or something, you know, like that’s what it feels like.
00:34:15 Speaker 2
It just feels like there is a new wave of like creative people in whatever they’re doing.
00:34:20 Speaker 2
And it is lovely to see, you know.
00:34:23 Speaker 2
So it’s exciting.
00:34:24 Speaker 2
I mean, I’m hoping we’re not going to like just all head into the apocalyptic fires, like I’m hoping that we’ll pull it back from the brink.
00:34:31 Speaker 2
I think it can happen.
00:34:32 Speaker 1
Yeah, we could live life thinking about that and just assuming that we’re going to go into apocalypse, or we can think about the solutions and focus on the positive energy and the things that are happening that are positive and truly believe that there’s something to be hopeful for.
00:34:50 Speaker 2
Exactly.
00:34:51 Speaker 2
And like, let’s be honest, we all live in danger all the time.
00:34:54 Speaker 2
It’s not going to change.
00:34:55 Speaker 2
The world is the scary place.
00:34:56 Speaker 2
Like from the beginning, you know, it’s been like, there’s a war coming or there’s this or there’s some new thing or AI is going to kill us all.
00:35:04 Speaker 2
And it’s just kind of like, you know, there is that, but there’s also like a lot of really good stuff, you know, maybe go for a walk in the woods.
00:35:13 Speaker 1
They say touch grass.
00:35:15 Speaker 2
Yeah, quite easy.
00:35:17 Speaker 2
Put your phone down.
00:35:18 Speaker 1
Get some sunlight.
00:35:20 Speaker 2
You’ll wonder how quickly you’ll feel better, you know.
00:35:23 Speaker 2
Yeah, so I think like the more you can just like step away from that and not give it so much time and attention and focus, like it changes everybody’s kind of.
00:35:32 Speaker 2
perspective then.
00:35:33 Speaker 2
And I love that about music.
00:35:34 Speaker 2
Music can literally change your consciousness, like if you’re at the right gig and somebody says something about, they’ve got a song or a purchase song and everyone’s just lit up feeling like, yeah, we can do this.
00:35:44 Speaker 2
And that’s what I love about music.
00:35:46 Speaker 2
It’s like nothing else.
00:35:47 Speaker 2
for me, who speak to me so much as a good song at the right time, it can change everything.
00:35:53 Speaker 2
So that’s exciting.
00:35:55 Speaker 1
Right on.
00:35:55 Speaker 1
Well, thank you for that, Mishkin.
00:35:57 Speaker 1
Where can people go to find you primarily and your podcast and your Patreon?
00:36:03 Speaker 2
It’s all on my website, michiganfitzgerald.co.uk or.com.
00:36:07 Speaker 2
You can just Google it.
00:36:08 Speaker 2
I’m obviously on Patreon, but my coven’s available to join just directly on my website.
00:36:13 Speaker 2
And there you have my podcast and all of my music and my shows and everything.
00:36:17 Speaker 2
So that’s the best place to find me.
00:36:19 Speaker 2
I am on social media, but if you really want to come in and be part of the world, then that’s where I’m at.
00:36:27 Speaker 1
All right.
00:36:27 Speaker 1
Thanks for being a guest today.
00:36:29 Speaker 2
Thank you for having me.
00:36:30 Speaker 1
All right.
00:36:33 Speaker 1
This is the V4V section of the show where I go through recent Boostagrams, zaps, and streaming sats, and I read them on the show to say thank you.
00:36:41 Speaker 1
These are the people who are listening to Rolls Radio and sending in their appreciation.
00:36:46 Speaker 1
The first boost came in from Matt Finlay for 321 sats, and that was on episode 13 with Matt the Tall.
00:36:55 Speaker 1
And Matt says, so that is what sounds like when he talks instead of texting into homegrown hits.
00:37:00 Speaker 1
Cool chat and I dig the ocarina, or the ocarina, as Matt the Tall pronounced it.
00:37:07 Speaker 1
Thank you, Matt Finlay, for the boost.
00:37:09 Speaker 1
Yeah, we always hear Matt the Tall’s name on those streaming V4V segments.
00:37:14 Speaker 1
And we dug in that episode 13 a little bit about how he does, how he listens and how he discovered the V4V space.
00:37:22 Speaker 1
The next boost is from Rev Hodl for 420 sats.
00:37:28 Speaker 1
He says, Bitcoiners who have recorded music should definitely get involved with decentralized music.
00:37:36 Speaker 1
Yes, I agree, Rev Hodl.
00:37:38 Speaker 1
Thank you for that boost.
00:37:42 Speaker 1
And another one on that episode, episode 13.
00:37:45 Speaker 1
By the way, that Rev Hodl was on episode 13.
00:37:48 Speaker 1
And this one is well from Strange Love 2000 sats.
00:37:52 Speaker 1
says, nice boys.
00:37:54 Speaker 1
Thank you, Strange Love.
00:37:55 Speaker 1
We appreciate it.
00:37:57 Speaker 1
Okay, heading over to Noster just to take a look.
00:38:00 Speaker 1
I got a zap from Amplified Tunes on the Sir TJ the Wrathful episode 12.
00:38:07 Speaker 1
Thank you for the zap, Amplified Tunes.
00:38:10 Speaker 1
And then the rest I see, many of which
00:38:14 Speaker 1
have no information attached to them.
00:38:18 Speaker 1
Just anonymous.
00:38:19 Speaker 1
But I see streaming sats.
00:38:21 Speaker 1
I see sats of 1 sat coming through, probably from a split for a test boost actually.
00:38:29 Speaker 1
I see 100 sats.
00:38:30 Speaker 1
I see 161 sats from lightning.
00:38:34 Speaker 1
I see 27 sats from new music nudge unit.
00:38:36 Speaker 1
Another 27.
00:38:38 Speaker 1
from New Music Nudge Unit, a zap from Oscar Mary for 210 sats, a lightning zap for 22 sats, I see 41 sats, 210 sats, 12 sats, all anonymous.
00:38:55 Speaker 1
Thank you for everyone who’s listening to the show